Charging for delivery

[JPA Cate]

Another way you could look at this is for being a teacher for them. You give them time, you make up your goals to seeing them able to complete the journey, and you sign on for 3-5 days, and teach simple troubleshooting and seamanship skills, then go back to where you can have day jobs.

This allows you to help your new friends a whole lot, and will work you to the bone. Do not do it unless they write you into the insurance, and if they're really impoverished, plan on taking a bus back home. Get them from Adelaide to Melbourne, then they're on their own, but you'll have taught them hopefully enough for them to build on. Their next leg, to the Prom, then Lakes Entrance, etc. etc. They can do that in weather-conscious bites, and there are some services along the way.

You shall have taken them through watch standing overnighters, etc. It is a huge teaching job, looked at that way, but something you would be able to look back on with a great deal of pride, if you're successful. It is also a huge responsibility. They would have to WANT to learn, or it will not work out well. You will probably find yourself doing some engine maintenance work, and take plenty of extra fuel filters. Make sure the water tanks are clean, and have fresh water in them. Etc. Plan to sail the boat, and motor as little as possible.

Ann

[LLizzard]

I too like the idea of putting you on the insurance policy.
Then it's just sit down and have a talk with him. He's got to pay your expenses, i.e. airfare, etc. Then just tell him what you are walking away from in terms of $ and the min. you can do it for without putting financial strain on yourself. Once he see's how much you are actually losing to help him, he should become appreciative. If it turns out to be more than he can afford, you graciously decline or have him reschedule so that you don't lose as much income. I just find transparency to be much easier and results in less hard feelings in the end. Everyone knows where the other guy is coming from.

[CaptTom]

Not sure about down there, but here in the US you'd legally need to be a credentialed master to take money to run the boat. Paid crew might be different, but in that case you would NOT want to be on the insurance as a "captain."

I share the concern about legal entanglements, particularly anything in writing. A couple of mates get in a bind and it ends there. If one of them is a paid expert, there's no telling what the authorities and attorneys might make of that.

[boatman61]

You dont have to be listed as captain.. thats a term seldom used outside the US..
Just listed as a person who uses the boat.

[JPA Cate]

Hi, GILow,

I was thinking about this a little more, and had a couple more thoughts.

One is that with an older boat with old rigging, you really should carry a couple of appropriate Sta-Loks and a piece of wire long enough to make up a new stay to replace one that breaks under way. This repair would mean going aloft at sea, and you would really need to have a vise aboard for making up the fittings. Also, you should carry some spare bits of wire that you could sister with bulldog clamps, for such a repair. Where I'm coming from with this, is that we had a baby stay break in a beginning gale somewhere between the Marquesas and Hawaii (iirc). Jim replaced it with a shorter piece of wire, and a multiple lashing, to get us into Hilo safely. Going aloft in those conditions (sustained 40's), took a lot of strength, and tolerance for bruising, but he made it down okay.

If you don't like those ideas, for any reason whatsoever, you should refuse to help them deliver the boat. At the end of the day, cruising is expensive, and less bucks means to some extent, more risk. I know your heart is in the right place about this, but you should be prepared to tell them the boat's not safe to go to sea as is, and they will have to deal with it prior to departure. It's not a totally safe game. It's everyone's lives. My concern here comes partly about scheduling it, too. If you can only give them a few days, which may be your financial situation, you may not have the time to spend to wait for kindly weather for your route.

Helping people deliver boats can be fun, but please take a real, cold, hard look at this one. I am not usually an alarmist, but I do feel concerned about this one.

Ann

[GILow]

I hear you Ann!

[boatman61]

Had an aft lower pop on me once.. why do these things always happen at night..
I made up a loop which I draped over the top off the stbd spreader and brought under the port spreader.. then using a block from the spinnaker and one of the sheets I secured the block to the chain plate, attached the line and fed it through the loop, down through the double block and back up and down through the block again, then to a winch where I cranked it tight then tied it off.. wrap some old towel or flexi hose pipe in the bights of the loop to minimise chaff on the line.
Was hove to on the opposite tack while I did it.
Held for over 1000nm till I reached the UK..

[JPA Cate]

Good one, Boatie.

Ann

[GILow]

You guys are just doing this to scare me. It won’t work you know... well... it might.

[GILow]

Boatie = McGyver.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by GILow

You guys are just doing this to scare me. It won’t work you know... well... it might.

No, I'm not trying to scare you, but you wrote that you don't know these people very well, and to evaluate the whole endeavour and provide meaningful feedback, from the grounds of many sea miles.... Well, there are many CF readers with no sea miles experience and only dreams. I think it is good for them to read that things can go pear-shaped, and that people who are mechanically adept can deal with situations that might otherwise lead to the loss of the mast.

On another subject, that of keels falling off, I just noticed someone posted the loss of a vessel off Perth--with 2 fatalities.

Simply viewing the project you suggest through rose coloured glasses, won't cut it.

Not knowing the people very well, it's a whole 'nother deal. Most people don't react well in crisis situations. Ego interference can make for serious problems. If you're going to be in charge, you have somehow to stay there if it stops being fun. This can ruin a friendly relationship. No adult likes to let someone else rule them, even when it's for their own good.

Anyhow, imho, both the project and the participants need to be looked at clearly, strengths and weaknesses considered. A simple delivery is much easier, just you, the boat, nursing it along very carefully, but no "personalities" involvement.

Ann

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by GILow

You guys are just doing this to scare me. It won’t work you know... well... it might.

Hi, just go day sailing with them for a couple of day trips and you will know if the longer delivery is a goer or not !

[TopHat]

Interesting thread GILow, how's it going?
As mentioned previously a couple or even a single day sail, will let you know if you can sail multiple days nonstop with them.
As long as it's understood, and in writing (even just in texts is fine imho) that you are "just helping" them, and that on your part it's "all care taken, no responsibility accepted ", there shouldn't be a problem.
I think you don't want to be written into any insurance, as that could be seen as your the one making the final decisions, ie the Skipper.
Deliveries aren't cheap, they can either afford it to hire professional crew, or not. In which case they do it themselves, and even better for them....with help from a more experienced friend like yourself. It's totally reasonable to expect a small recompense plus expenses for your time.
If your patient and they are also patient and reasonable and understand the rules if you like, you'll likely end up being better and closer friends.
But you don't accept any responsibility for them or their property.
Cheers

[Snowpetrel]

A dollar a mile means when conditions are great and you are making 6 knots you get $6/hr. Or $144 per day. But about as much of your time is often spent in port earning nothing. I normally charge around $4 per mile for coastal stuff. And add a day rate in port for fixing stuff, but not waiting out weather. I always like to have at least one competant crew.

[Ruso]

30 years boat with newbies and not well known friends on 1.5K trip.. Disaster waiting to happen. Just say "NO". Teach them as much as you can, advise them without loosing your life sight.