Boat Insurance out of USA

[teddythetwig]

Hi all,
Are there any Americans out there living in other countries(especially Holland) who have tips about acquiring liability insurance? Every insurer I've talked to will not offer me a policy because of the reporting requirements of the IRS for companies that work with US citizens and I can't get a quote from any US companies because my boat is based out of NL.

[ccannan]

Try local Dutch companies. My guess is that Pantenius has a Dutch office. Start with them. It is my impression that boat insurance in Europe is still very fragmented along national borders. Please keep CF informed about your progress.

[teddythetwig]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Try local Dutch companies. My guess is that Pantenius has a Dutch office. Start with them. It is my impression that boat insurance in Europe is still very fragmented along national borders. Please keep CF informed about your progress.

ccannan, thanks for the rec! I just called them and they said it shouldn't be a problem! I'm waiting on a quote now. I find it surprising that a smaller company would be willing to deal with this whereas a big one won't. Anyways, fingers crossed

[ccannan]

I think Pantenius is actually a large insurance company, but each office seems to work independently. I remember trying to get liability insurance with them, by communicating with the UK office (thinking they could speak English, thus making everything easier for me), and I was confronted with a similar runaround about why they couldn't cover me. A year or two later I contacted Pantenius in Mallorca (Spain), and they had no problems offering me coverage. Just bizarre!! And what may be even more bizarre is that the UK office didn't point me to another Pantenius office!

Now that you know it is possible, I would shop around with Dutch local offices. Ask your Dutch marina neighbors where they get their liability insurance. Two other companies I'd check with are ING and ABN-AMRO (I think both are banks, but I think they might have insurance arms too).

[roland stockham]

Pantainious is a broker not insurer. Insurence will be with Lloyds London. I had their policy for years and they are very good in Europe

[sailcrazy]

We used Top Sail, out of London, all 3 years we spent in the Medd. They were VERY competitive on premiums, excellent of service and providing new documents-in the correct language- as we changed countries and asked for them. I'd highly recommend them.

[ccannan]

Originally Posted by roland stockham

Pantainious is a broker not insurer. Insurence will be with Lloyds London. I had their policy for years and they are very good in Europe

I stand corrected, however, I'm not sure the insurer will definitely be Lloyds. I know that some Pantenius offices change underwriters on annual basis (01 January). My recollection was that my underwriter (thru Pantenius) wasn't Lloyds (not that it is very pertinent to the consumer).

[pcmm]

Ironically I had a similar issue with Pantenious trying to get liability coverage in the US. apparently they don't offer insurance in the US any longer. or at least that's what they told me when I asked for a liability only policy! some of the liability coverage that is available through companies like progressive, gieco is easy to get , but the coverage is WAY too low! progressive for instance only offers up to $300k if liability insurance, its about $1.7mill short of what it should be!

[chuckr]

Not quite sure what the issues are (not the sharpest knife in the drawer) - but we are a US boat and have not been in the USA for 6-7 years -
We have used only 2 companies - Bill Hodgens of YachtInsure and IMIS - we currently have IMIS and no issues

[ccannan]

Chuckr, would you be so kind as to share details about your current insurance policy? What it covers, and how much it costs? Where was your boat when you got it insured? Was your boat ever not insured? Did either or both companies require a survey?


The issues I have run into are:

1) I am a US citizen.
2) I only want to buy liability insurance.
3)My boat is not in the USA, it is in the EU.
4)Many, if not most insurers want expensive surveys done on boats prior to insuring.

That has been my experience. I have personally dealt with IMIS, and while I know many people on this forum believe the service/value to be reasonable, I disagree. I, like the OP, wanted liability insurance only, and was told by many insurers both in and out of the USA, that couldn't or wouldn't for a number of reasons. Pick one from the list.

A) My boat is a US boat.
B) My boat is not in the US.
C) A recent survey is a required.
D) I am a US citizen.
E) I don't have EU residency, or an EU bank account/ address.
D) Blah, blah, blah. ...

[chuckr]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Chuckr, would you be so kind as to share details about your current insurance policy? What it covers, and how much it costs? Where was your boat when you got it insured? Was your boat ever not insured? Did either or both companies require a survey?


The issues I have run into are:

1) I am a US citizen.
2) I only want to buy liability insurance.
3)My boat is not in the USA, it is in the EU.
4)Many, if not most insurers want expensive surveys done on boats prior to insuring.

That has been my experience. I have personally dealt with IMIS, and while I know many people on this forum believe the service/value to be reasonable, I disagree. I, like the OP, wanted liability insurance only, and was told by many insurers both in and out of the USA, that couldn't or wouldn't for a number of reasons. Pick one from the list.

A) My boat is a US boat.
B) My boat is not in the US.
C) A recent survey is a required.
D) I am a US citizen.
E) I don't have EU residency, or an EU bank account/ address.
D) Blah, blah, blah. ...

We are a US boat and sailed across in 2013.

We are USA citizens

We have always had full insurance except when we went to the eastern end of the Black Sea when our insurance company would not insure us for piracy and theft - no big deal and we went anyway

I guess we can get liability but we opt for full coverage as our boat is our house and more -

We do have to get a survey every 4-5 years - something like that - and do not mind it as it will highlight any problems that I may have missed and our last one last year cost us 800euro

We are in Turkey and this is our 2nd winter in Turkey - we spent 2 winters in Tunisia -

Because we have full coverage we work with IMIS and they have been very responsive to our needs. We went into Montenegro and showed our insurance and we had 500k usd - they wanted 1mil euro - I emailed IMIS and within 24hours had a rider as without it we would have had to leave.

We sail a Jeanneau DS40 - 2000 built launched 2003. We keep her in good condition and you can see in the cost data we provide with 25% or so of all the money we spend goes to the boat. our insurance varies a bit depending on where we sail but this year is just below 2k for the year for full coverage.

The one thing we like about IMIS is they listen to what we want to do and work with us accordingly - when we crossed over we do not take crew and they were fine with that - when we wanted to go to the Black Sea they worked to minimize our cost as they charged more for the east end of the Black Sea and limited coverage a bit as above but they did not charge us until we were ready to sail into the territory they deemed a problem and we told them we would be out by such and such a date and tailored the policy to just that

I missed one by the way - we have Turkish residence for last year and for the next two but that is rare. In Tunisia we did not have residence and no issues with insurance. And we do not use a bank over here - we use Bank of America and have for the 10 years we have been out.

this is a bit disjointed but hope it helps - anything else pm me with your email and I will try and help

good luck

[Al Golden]

A) My boat is a US boat.
No problem.
B) My boat is not in the US.
No problem.
C) A recent survey is a required.
Yep, if she's over 10 years old.
D) I am a US citizen.
No problem.
E) I don't have EU residency, or an EU bank account/ address.
No problem.
D) Blah, blah, blah. ...
3 blahs or more could be a problem.
And, of course, we do write liability only...

[ccannan]

Survey required = approximately an extra $1000 for a 50 ft vessel, before dealing with any discrepancies, and potential re-survey. My experience with surveyors is that they conduct very superficial inspections, verifying systems operation, creating pretty reports, and filling a check in a block for insurance companies and/or lenders.

OP didn't specify if he had a recent survey, but I know Pantenius (and other EU brokers) offer liability only insurance without a survey.

[Al Golden]

Originally Posted by ccannan

Survey required = approximately an extra $1000 for a 50 ft vessel, before dealing with any discrepancies, and potential re-survey. My experience with surveyors is that they conduct very superficial inspections, verifying systems operation, creating pretty reports, and filling a check in a block for insurance companies and/or lenders.

OP didn't specify if he had a recent survey, but I know Pantenius (and other EU brokers) offer liability only insurance without a survey.

Well, if the yacht is already ashore for whatever, the cost of an Condition & Value Survey should cost about half of that, AND is then good for 5 years. So the annualized cost is about $100 to $120.

So, it's important to think ahead and schedule your required haulout and survey at around the same time. Or, arrange for a short-haul for the survey, which marinas will generally do during their lunch break.

We write for some carriers that don't require a survey for liability cover only, but the better informed ones do for offshore coverage.

[maine50]

Al- I just got a quote for Lifeline thru Carter Gowie- had a ins survey 22 months
ago- now being required to do another. Any guidance--