Why Do Sailors Still Die Being Dragged Along By Their Tethers?

[sailorcherry]

Having a vessel with a low profile, low freeboard sure helps and eases the mind too.
There certainly are modifications (picture attached, hopefully) one can do to improve safety and mob retrieval. Add safety netting along with a large, easily opened side gate if side mob retrieval were necessary. Cut out transom definitely has made mob, or dob (dog overboard :/ ) retrieval super easy. Having a high quality o/b hoist, Noval Lift is rated at 220 lbs, is a strong arm option if one cannot get up the long ladder into the cockpit sole.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by billknny

Of course, what I am presenting here is the LOGIC and the REASONING, it is not a presentation to crew, and it was presented as a rebuttal to some other posts on here who have basically stated that their way was the only way, when in my opinion, their way has some serious problems.

But... the basic thought stays the same. There are basic safety rules on my boat. They are inflexible. I discuss them with potential crew before they commit to sailing with me. If I have a basic safety rule that someone refuses to follow, then they need to find another boat. We will not be happy together. They won't get yelled or screamed at. They won't be abused or insulted. But the rules will be made clear and the reasons for them carefully explained. You are free to disagree with my logic. But, you won't sail with me if you refuse to follow the rules I consider vital to everybody's safety.

And it follows with total logic, if you think my safety rules are stupid and misguided, you damn well should not WANT to sail with me. A boat in the middle of the ocean is not a place for passive/aggressive civil disobedience.

Just by way of example, if someone invited me to do an ocean passage and he believed that harnesses and tethers were more dangerous than going out on deck without them, and "no tether/no jackline" was the rule on his boat. I'm not going on his boat, and he would not be sailing on my boat.

This is really just another way of saying I WILL NOT allow my crew to do something I consider dangerous. I would hope every captain would do exactly the same. I would hope every captain would make that clear to the crew in a logical, thoughtful, nonthreatening manner.

Why would you have crew on board who do what you know to be dangerous things?

You.. like many seem to leap to assumptions all too quickly.
As a skipper I choose Not to use a Tether.. that is my choice based on a sound lifelong knowledge of my personal capabilities.. however.. if you were to crew on a boat I was delivering I would insist on you using a tether and wear a lifejacket if accompanying me to the bow in bad weather.. the last thing I need is to worry about someone with more mouth than ability.
Though its unlikely that would arise as I'll not ask someone to do something up forward unless I was there already.. there has been the very rare occasion when I've had to call back for assistance but.. he got told to get his harness and clip on before he stepped out of the cockpit.
I'm hands on everything.. not just the helm..

[smurphny]

This issue requires very careful thought and planning. The objective in design of tether attachments needs to be placement of those points so that the sailor cannot go overboard dangling from a tether. Long jacklines have too much latitude to avoid getting pitched right over lifelines and trapped alongside. I am placing separate anchor points which do not allow my torso to get any farther than the gunwale. With a double tether it is possible to make this work.

[thinwater]

If you get Practical Sailor, you might find this interesting. They've been testing samples, replicating the failure.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/blog/Tether-Clip-Update-12345-1.html#read

Full report in 2 weeks, including testing other brands and a comparison of sailing standards with other carabiner standards.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by hamburking

My policy has always been that in rough conditions, no one leaves the cockpit.

Until one must.

[Juho]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Keno's floating drysuit suggestion is a good one for those sailing in waters N of 40..
However I personally prefer a 4mm wet suit and windsurf boots combined with a close fitting bomber style windproof for bad weather/conditions.
It'll keep me afloat and warm for a few hours.. I can swim well in it and its great for moving around deck in strong winds..
Not for everyone to follow.. just my way.
I worked two winter for a survey company in Poole Harbour quite a few back which involved spending 12hrs a day clambering around tidal estuary waters and mud in weather cold enough to surface freeze parts of the harbour waters in January which required this outfit.. also spent 5 winters working on mooring maintenance again I chose using the wet suit/wind proof but with proper steel toecap boots..
I used to carry a 2L flask of hot water and every couple of hours pour a cupful down my neck front and back.. kept me nice and toasty.

The old hands here may remember me mentioning this back in my early years of membership.

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Boatman,

I tried your wetsuit idea the last time we hit wet, cold weather. The idea is sound, but it was difficult to get out of the thing when heading below to relieve myself. Something I hadn’t anticipated.

And I do like the halyard as a tether idea for really bad weather, but it seems to me that one could get tossed around like a rag doll with an attachment that long coming from above.

Timo Noko is a true survivor (and my hero ). His wetsuit seems to meet all the mentioned needs, and he has tested it in numerous demanding places.

https://timonoko.github.io/puku/INDEX.HTM
https://timonoko.github.io

[Polux]

Originally Posted by poiu

The cutting free is fine, all the more so if you have the AIS lifejacket beacons.

If there is more than a small swell running you can't use the transom. It bangs up and down too much to be safe. Much better to use a halyard with a snap shackle onto a harness. It should have the victim out in a few seconds.

A really difficult situation is if you are two handed. One in the water alongside and unconscious, head down, one on the boat and a sea running. Pretty tricky.

I agree that with bad sea conditions it should be tricky but I had already to dive under the boat with a lot more than a small swell and I had no problems using the stair. It is a question of coordination. The boat movements are predictable and not that fast.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by poiu

It's hard to tell without non-verbal cues and without seeing your rule book, but this reads as overly strict.

It seems about right to me. The captain is the captain and is responsible for everybody lives. I have once ordered the other member of the crew to leave the cockpit enter the boat and close the hatch. The measure could have seem to be just too cautious but on that case it turned out to be a very adequate decision.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by boatman61

You.. like many seem to leap to assumptions all too quickly.
As a skipper I choose Not to use a Tether.. that is my choice based on a sound lifelong knowledge of my personal capabilities.. ....

I know of a great skipper that never uses a tether, Tabarly. One night he disappeared overboard not to be seeing again...and he was not sailing solo nor racing. If he was tethered he probably could have called for help.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Polux

I know of a great skipper that never uses a tether, Tabarly. One night he disappeared overboard not to be seeing again...and he was not sailing solo nor racing. If he was tethered he probably could have called for help.

Accidents happen.. though it puzzles me if the wind was so strong why were they taking down the main.. and while going with the wind..


"“No, no, we’ll try to do it like this,” Eric answers. You don’t discuss an order with Tabarly. Antoine and Jacques-André are at the foot of the mast, with the two halyards to bring down the gaff. Antoine then moves aft a little from the mast to help furl the sail. Eric is further aft, standing on deck, his chest against the boom and fighting furiously with the fabric. He’s done this a thousand times. The gaff is lowered onto the stowed mainsail. Still a few seconds… just a rope, a tie, to pass around and make it fast… and the gaff would be immobilised.
But in a more violent roll, the gaff swings out violently to starboard, to swing back with huge force. Eric takes it full in the chest. He is projected violently backwards, overboard and into the sea. When Erwan remembers this moment, he thinks that even with two crew-members there, both would have been thrown overboard in the same manner. Eric doesn’t have a harness. He shouts something. He is certainly not wounded. He’s not wearing a life jacket, nor carrying personal rockets to be able to show the boat where he is in the water.
The crew immediately throw liferings into the sea and launch red distress parachute rockets. But there are no boats close to Pen Duick; they decide to preserve the rest of the rockets. With a handheld VHF, a Mayday won’t be heard by Coastguards; their last fix, by GPS, was plotted at 2130. At the moment of the accident, Pen Duick was 80 miles north of Land’s End, and some 35 miles off the Welsh coast.
Lashing the sails to the deck and starting the 18hp Volvo with its tiny two-blade propeller, the crew found making way back upwind very difficult. The engine was just for manoeuvres in port; Eric liked to do everything under sail. In this very choppy sea, the engine was insufficient against the wind, giving perhaps half a knot, and it took Pen Duick three hours to get back to the position where Eric went overboard. After several hours of searching, they turned towards the coast, hoping to meet other boats. The wind had fallen, but the sea had taken its toll."

[boatman61]

The Why.. a bad decision.. over confidence in front of crew..???

June 1998. En route to the Fife Regatta in Scotland, Pen Duick is about to lose her skipper, France’s greatest-ever yachtsman
By Christian Février, translated by Dan Houston. Drawing by Guy Venables



It was in June 1998 and Pen Duick had been holed up for several days in Newlyn, the small Cornish fishing port, by northerly gales. She was bound for Fairlie on the Clyde in Scotland for the first gathering of Fife-designed boats at the Fife Regatta later that month.
“I was never held such a long time in port!” complained Eric Tabarly, her owner and skipper. Magda IV, a Swedish-built Fife, had also cruised over from Bénodet where they’d just celebrated Pen Duick’s centenary; she too, was sailing north. Eric and his friends spent the time visiting this coast they loved so much. They’d been to Mousehole, the charming small fishing port, and they’d seen the Lizard, where the sailing records of the Atlantic were recorded. They’d visited the sheltered estuary of the Helford and seen the rocky cliffs of Land’s End.
Tabarly had invited Erwan Quéméré, a well known French photographer to join this cruise. At sunset, Erwan took a photo of Eric alone, contemplating the brilliant sea, unaware it would be the last photograph of him. Later the crew of Pen Duick (CB54) dined on board Magda IV (CB198). Eric had sung. He was happy. There were five crew on board Pen Duick. Eric had invited Lieutenant Jacques André Rebec and skiing friends from Chamonix, Antoine Costa with his wife Candida. They sailed every year on Pen Duick. But they were hardly a racing crew. Rather they were friends on a pleasure cruise. By Friday 12 June, the northerlies had ceased and the forecast was for the wind to back, favourably, to the south. There was no mention of bad weather in the area.
Pen Duick left Newlyn at the end of the morning with Magda IV. A radio contact by handheld VHF every three hours had been decided between the boats. Prudently, Magda left under reduced sail; she can be wet in a seaway. Eric, according to his practice, set all possible fabric on Pen Duick: three jibs, her grand high-peaked gaff mainsail and the topsail. He was in a hurry to sail his boat again. Pen Duick passed Land’s End at approximately 1300hrs. In the afternoon, the southerly freshened. Eric handed his topsail and flying jib.
This was the first time Erwan Quéméré had sailed on Pen Duick. He was very impressed to see Eric, at 66, working on the end of the bowsprit, keeping his balance while he calmly brought in the jib. Of course there were no jackstays or safety lines; Eric never carried them. He once said he would rather spend an hour in the water than be tied on with a harness.
In the Irish Sea a strong swell remained from the four days of previous northerlies. Now the southerlies, working against this remaining swell, were raising a short choppy sea which was very unpleasant for Pen Duick, which is low in the water with little freeboard. With the wind still rising Eric decided to reduce sail area. He took in one reef, then two. Around 2345, Pen Duick was still overpressed by her double-reefed main and just a small jib. The following sea had grown bigger, and although it wasn’t storm conditions the boat was being repeatedly struck by squalls and the night was black with thick rain. The forecast had been for swells of two to three metres, but in reality these steep seas were three to four metres.
Eric decided to replace the main with the storm trysail. It is easy to picture the boat, surging at nine knots with the wind dead aft in these nasty steep seas, which were causing her to roll from rail to rail, and it is important to appreciate the conditions to understand what happened next.
When you decide to douse the mainsail, you sheet the boom in to the centreline of the boat. Then you let down the gaff’s peak and throat halyards. It is a delicate moment, especially if the boat is hard-pressed and rolling from one side to the other. The mainsail must be bundled up quickly to get it out of the water and you need to be fast to secure the gaff which is zig-zagging in the air above the crew’s heads.
For this evolution, Eric asks Erwan Quéméré to take the helm. The photographer, a good sailor, asks whether he should luff up to come across the wind so that the gaff would be held to the lee and not swing around so much

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Jammer

I've done it. Admittedly, on boats with low freeboard, not sailing vessels. I don't think I could do it on a sailboat under good conditions; add some cold and the weight of outwear and so on and there's no way. But that isn't the point. The point is that it opens up possibilities that otherwise aren't there, and reduces the amount of strength those on board have to bring to bear and the level of sophistication of the rescue gear that is needed.

I can, for example, quite comfortably get back on board with a ladder with one step below the water. I don't think that's exceptional, it just requires a level of strength and flexibility that most people can achieve with regular trips to the gym.



Most of my friends who bicycle have very good cardiovascular fitness, strong legs, and well controlled body weight. They do not have much upper body strength. Can you do pull-ups?

I have done it, too! After having fallen overboard, no less. Admittedly, I fell in on the low side (the dangerous side, in my opinion) and, compared to most of the yachts we are talking about, the boat in question had less freeboard, but still. I absolutely agree that fitness is part of the equation and that the fitness of many who sail could use some work, mine included, these days. Fitness will help keep you from going overboard, will help keep you alive longer, if you do, and will help get you back onboard, even if it is to lessen the load on rescuers.

I have also heaved myself up onto docks a couple of times, when falling in at the marina, which I would hope most could do, but some cannot. Fitness does count for quite a bit and should not be overlooked.

[daletournier]

Mindset also comes into play. Complacency is very dangerous and creeps in over time. I know I can suffer from it.

[MarkSF]

Originally Posted by boatman61

I disagree.. its no big deal to put a pad eye each side of the hatchway with 2 lines running to a single pad eye at the mast.. then a single line running to the bow that one can transfer to from a secure position.
Clip on before you climb out of the cockpit.

That's how I just installed them. Two padeyes each side of the hatch low down, two jack lines going forward, to one pad eye forward of the mast, on the rear edge of the foredeck, then the same lines continue forward together, down the middle, to the bow.

The lines also extend rearwards to the helm position, to two more padeyes each side of the helm. The jack lines cross over behind the helm, and are secured to the opposite padeye. The helmsman attaches to this crossover, which works on either tack.

A useful side effect is that all 4 padeyes in the cockpit have to fail before anyone goes overboard. On the main deck, both forward padeyes have to fail. On the foredeck, just one I'm afraid.

[Kerry1]

Thanks for the interaction guys. I'd like to see how we might overcome the points raised.
Daletournier #123 "Regarding the Halyard idea, I see a problem with the rigging getting in the way."
Thinwater #124 "I did try the halyard idea, as part of an article, because I was asked to. Try it in mild weather first, like all safety ideas. " -Good point- "I think you will learn that it is a terrible idea. " Isn't that what they said about the telephone?

"The halyard loves to wrap around the spreaders" -True, what if, on the understanding that most accidents occur where tethers failed to keep the crewmember on the vessel forward of the mast, then the forward facing halyard is attached upon reaching the mast by conventional jacklines & tether? Then we are operating in the foretriangle of what are mostly Burmudan rigged boats which are relatively free of clutter. "If the boat is heeling when you go over the side, you will be stuck hanging, way out there, and hanging from a chest harness is really bad." My original suggestion was a combination of tether to centered jackline and halyard: Kerry #81 "What of a tether/jackline system in combination with a halyard that is capable of feeding line or someone manning the other end of the halyard? "
"you need to manage the slack continuously." A car seatbelt does that reliably and safely under much more shock loading than I would expect on a boat even when a heavy man stumbled while surfing down a wave. The auto-tensioning device could be integral with the harness over the life jacket attached to a conventional spare halyard (that you were prepared to trust with your life) On my roughly 40ft boat with a mast about 52ft, and given the bow is roughly 20ft forward of the mast, the hypotenuse equates to about 56ft, the self-tensioning system only has to accommodate about say 4-6ft of variation in length which I'm sure an adapted seatbelt mechanism could handle. I would envision an attachment point to a harness on the back at waist level or between the shoulders with a release mechanism and tether for reattachment of the halyard near the mast.
This idea has redundancy. Because the crew member is attached to both a centered tether and a failure of either doesn't necessarily mean entry into the water. And I think there is some consensus that entering the water in these conditions is almost certain death, or at least prevention of entry is imperative. Although your point is taken about flying from the mast in those conditions would be undesirable!
Cons
How to adapt a seatbelt tensioner to a marine environment. Everything could be made of stainless and highgrade polymer except the return spring. Seal it in oil?
In attrocious conditions would the oscillation or whipping of the halyard combined with natural body movement on a heaving deck trigger the locking mechanism prematurely blocking movement?
Pro's
Two points of attachment means the load under certain conditions may be halved.
The self adjusting halyard allows free movement up to a point.
One can still use the normal tether for bracing against the forces involved. With a deliberate jerk on the halyard, forcing the autolocking halyard to engage, the crewmember could be braced from both leeward and downward movement at the work area.
Both hands free to engage in the task at hand.
The halyard is the more direct method of staying or preventing any vertical drops, even just slamming onto the deck, let alone falling into a tempestuous sea. The conventional tether prevents leeward movement, the halyard- sudden downward movement.
The greater the height of the exit point of the halyard from the mast, the less proportional adjustment to the length is necessary as you proceed down the deck from mast to the bow- therefore less spring auto-adjustment necessary.