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Old 17-03-2011, 13:22   #31
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Re: Tethers

TY SAILMONKEY.
when items are less reliable than homemade, my insurance is the homemade item.
i pay no one for this
i trust my self.
i trust my knots.
i trust my shiplet.
i am not sheep nor follower.
i think outside the box...heck i cant even find that damnable box to try to think inside of it...
i rely on my own common sense.
i thank gods i have that. is not as common as is named.
i may be lower income at this point in my life but i am not suicidal.
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Old 17-03-2011, 13:23   #32
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
I'm going to fry for this, That much I am certain of.

It would seem to me that as individuals we take to sailing as a release or rather an escape from the nanny mentality. When we are discussing tethers and jacklines and harnesses and the expression "mandatory" or "essential" come up, along with one of my favorites "Safety" that in recent years has taken on as much meaning as the word "smurf", we're moving away from the attraction of a self sufficent lifestyle that is experienced by living and cruising on a sailboat. I have a "real" tether, but have many times used some three strand that I spliced onto old snap shackles/caribeaners. The risk to me was nil compared to the risk of not having any tether. Had I not been willing to accept the risk of using a homemade tether I would have sailed without rather than spend the money that I didn't have at the time. I for one would like to think that I'm smart enough to weigh what risks I'm going to take and how I'm willing to mitigate them without being pinned by safety smurf to a commercial product.
I am in total agreement with everything that you say above.

Let's be clear, the post was request was for information. In many cases I don't know what I don't know and therefore I need to be enlightened/educated. I think we are trying to enlighten and educate in these posts because the tether/harness thing is a bit more complicated then one would think at first glance. Therefore, it is important to get the information out so the risks inherent in home-made versus store-bought can be intelligently assessed.
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Old 17-03-2011, 14:58   #33
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Re: Tethers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailmonkey View Post
I'm going to fry for this, That much I am certain of.

It would seem to me that as individuals we take to sailing as a release or rather an escape from the nanny mentality. When we are discussing tethers and jacklines and harnesses and the expression "mandatory" or "essential" come up, along with one of my favorites "Safety" that in recent years has taken on as much meaning as the word "smurf", we're moving away from the attraction of a self sufficent lifestyle that is experienced by living and cruising on a sailboat. I have a "real" tether, but have many times used some three strand that I spliced onto old snap shackles/caribeaners. The risk to me was nil compared to the risk of not having any tether. Had I not been willing to accept the risk of using a homemade tether I would have sailed without rather than spend the money that I didn't have at the time. I for one would like to think that I'm smart enough to weigh what risks I'm going to take and how I'm willing to mitigate them without being pinned by safety smurf to a commercial product.
I think that is terrifically well stated.
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Old 17-03-2011, 16:20   #34
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Sailmonkey

That safety smurf may be your insurance company.

Those who are paid to take folks out will need to ensure that they take ALL pre-cautions, with an emphasis on the pre.

I can understand that.

But the part about the insurance company is admitting that personal responsibility is not as well as it was. As in "Don't worry I have insurance." Works both ways.

To many here in the US are loaded down with insurance because of the fact that if something happens to "us" we want to find someone else to blame and collect a lot of money, most of which goes to the company and lawyers. Little to end "victim". Stories (and the reality of it) abound.

There is a lot of grey area though. That is the tough part.

PS. I have commercially made jacket/harness, tethers and jack lines.
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Old 17-03-2011, 16:36   #35
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by b-rad View Post
If you are intrested in long but infopackedreadabout tethers
http://offshore.ussailing.org/Assets...ea+Studies.pdf

WHEW!

Mine passed.

I was surprised at the number of "fails".
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Old 17-03-2011, 19:56   #36
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Re: Tethers

Just on a whim I googled "safety smurf"......what do ya know, the little blue dude exists!!
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Old 18-03-2011, 02:05   #37
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Safety hooks

Just so everyone knows what I'm planning

Double action Safety Hook

With 3 strand nylon rope spliced on.

The safety study quoted was concerned about crew being dragged through the water. My belief is that on a cruising boat the harness and tether are to prevent going into the water in the first place.
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Old 18-03-2011, 02:59   #38
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by rpoint16 View Post
I have been looking for an all pourpose costal cruising type tether.

Talking to a buddy who is an avid rock climber/mountaineer. He recommended I build one from components at REI. I see they have locking caribiners w/ 25+ kn strength & 11mm rope at 33 kn (kn = kilonewton, 1-kn is I believe around 230 lbs). Throw a bowline around the caribiners for different lengths, applications, & needs.

Any thoughts?
I use similar but with a grigri at the harness (climbing harness, I never wear a life jacket but that's mabe a separate issue) . Petzl Gri Gri
Takes moments to take up any slack on the lanyard.
Everyone gets excited about releasing connectors while getting dragged along the side of the boat, i really think thats the wrong way to be looking at it, if you leave the boat it's too late!!!
I prefer to focus on making sure you stay on the boat, grigri's & grillons can slack out of the lanyard easily at all times, keeping the fall factor to zero as well. V useful at the mast as well, clip off, lean back into the harness and have both hands free.
but each to their own.
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Old 18-03-2011, 04:02   #39
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Re: Safety hooks

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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
Just so everyone knows what I'm planning

Double action Safety Hook

With 3 strand nylon rope spliced on.

The safety study quoted was concerned about crew being dragged through the water. My belief is that on a cruising boat the harness and tether are to prevent going into the water in the first place.
This is what we have at the 'boat' end of our tethers. At the 'person' end, the clips are smaller, and have a quick release string to pull for easy release - which I personally believe is essential.
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Old 18-03-2011, 14:17   #40
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
I use similar but with a grigri at the harness (climbing harness, I never wear a life jacket but that's mabe a separate issue) . Petzl Gri Gri
I'm not sure that it is safe to use a GriGri in marine environment. IMO, the risks of corrosion (stainless steel & light alloy) and jamming with salt crystals are too big. See http://www.petzl.com/files/all/techn...14_GRIGRI2.pdf

Alain
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Old 18-03-2011, 14:57   #41
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
I'm not sure that it is safe to use a GriGri in marine environment. IMO, the risks of corrosion (stainless steel & light alloy) and jamming with salt crystals are too big. See http://www.petzl.com/files/all/techn...14_GRIGRI2.pdf

Alain
First I swear I'm not piling-on. I gets weird enough when the safety police start waving the bloody shirt. It gets possitivly religious.

Wire gate climbing biners hold up well (they were invented for climbing by the way, to reduce gate lash, not for sailing). Regular gate biners tend to seize if not very regularly lubed; this makes them an accidental release risk. I'm going to skip the releasable argument... except to say that if you gave a rigger a releasable biner for the harness end of his mast climbing rope he'd tell you to get lost. That would be lunacy. Huh.

Many sailors successfully use locking biners on the jackline end. This depends on the boat and the set-up. When we are using tethers, the tethers stay on the jackline and only the harness end is moved. Other boats may be different.

With all of the this "impact" talk, why aren't marine tethers designed to absorb impact (OSHA and climbing tethers are)?

A climbing seat harness is all wrong. Tow yourself through the water and see. It's been tested and it's a mistake. The 2 harness types serve very different purposes (hanging vs. towing and positioning).

The Gri-Gri seems like a hassle (yes, I have used one for a thousand hours easy). I prefer a multi-clip tether. I do wonder about some of the small parts.
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Old 18-03-2011, 15:06   #42
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by Hydra View Post
I'm not sure that it is safe to use a GriGri in marine environment. IMO, the risks of corrosion (stainless steel & light alloy) and jamming with salt crystals are too big. See http://www.petzl.com/files/all/techn...14_GRIGRI2.pdf

Alain
Well I hadn't read that i must admit. Actually still haven't, 23 pages and not sure where to look. Mine has done a few miles and I've just dug it out, still looks fine. If the stainless pins or alloy were to corrode enough to be close to the edge then I really don't think you could use it at all, it would be jammed solid. If anything the steel screwgate caribiners need more tlc, though not much, a rinse and spray of lubricant after use seems to work fine.

Works for me
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Old 18-03-2011, 15:35   #43
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Re: Tethers

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Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Well I hadn't read that i must admit. Actually still haven't, 23 pages and not sure where to look. Mine has done a few miles and I've just dug it out, still looks fine. If the stainless pins or alloy were to corrode enough to be close to the edge then I really don't think you could use it at all, it would be jammed solid. If anything the steel screwgate caribiners need more tlc, though not much, a rinse and spray of lubricant after use seems to work fine.

Works for me
I do use screw gate carabiners (jackline end); I simply grease them 2-3x per year (waterproof grease, which a climber would never use). I wanted to caution you re. standard biners; since the gate is closed only by a small spring they ain't dependable. Save them for the crags, where they will not be corroded.

One nice thing about the aluminum biners; they're just as strong yet too light to ding the gelcoat, like SS. They do require just a bit of diligence, but what amounts to climbing gear should be inspected with every use anyway, and in greater detail a few times a year.
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Old 12-04-2011, 20:59   #44
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Re: Tethers

I'd be more concerned about the length and what I was attaching them to than the tether or the carabiners.

When singlehanding I use the tethers with 3'and 6' lengths. With the 3' attached, I can't go overboard. I use the 6' to get to the mast to reef, but then reattach the 3' tether. When in the cockpit I have multiple attachment points with backing plates. When at the mast I tether to a stainless steel ring designed for the inboard end of a whisker pole.
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