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Old 22-08-2014, 08:00   #151
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..........................
The discussion was about Phillippines....

I feel it is some problem here...

Some posters write: "Universe"

And think "US"....
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Old 22-08-2014, 08:50   #152
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
A quick gun sidebar from someone you'd probably consider a nanny-stater: if the pro-gun position included that every gun owner had mandatory training and/or military service experience, and all weapons were registered - think Switzerland or Israel.... I'd be pro-gun.

Carry on.
Totally agree....
2 countries that I admire.

I see that training as the only way to neutralize the crazies out there.

Its funny...we teach the children everything from sex education to political science..... But not how to survive if confronted by someone with deadly intent.
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Old 22-08-2014, 09:32   #153
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Totally agree....
2 countries that I admire.

I see that training as the only way to neutralize the crazies out there.

Its funny...we teach the children everything from sex education to political science..... But not how to survive if confronted by someone with deadly intent.
The states that are the most pro-gun also tend to be those that are the most anti-sex education.
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Old 22-08-2014, 09:45   #154
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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The states that are the most pro-gun also tend to be those that are the most anti-sex education.

You mean Switzerland ? ? ?
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Old 22-08-2014, 09:49   #155
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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You mean Switzerland ? ? ?
Clearly, I quoted the wrong poster. No, I meant that within the US, the states that have open carry rallies also have rules against sex education, unless you count abstinence only, which is really non-sex education.
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Old 22-08-2014, 17:53   #156
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pirate Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Clearly, I quoted the wrong poster. No, I meant that within the US, the states that have open carry rallies also have rules against sex education, unless you count abstinence only, which is really non-sex education.
We're you talking to ME?
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Old 23-08-2014, 01:14   #157
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Islam and piracy were again the main topics at the yachtie dinner last night. One had lived and worked in Saudi Arabia for years and recalls the ban on allowing Saudi girls to be educated outside the country.

He then listed a whole list of government imposed mandates that "brain washes" the women.
When he left he promised himself to never set foot again in an Islamic country.

He broke that promise when he visited Indonesia. He said the differences in the ability of a woman to have standing in Indwere night and day. I also reported one key difference in the Islamic community of the Philippines is a greater respect for women.

I have not yet been to Indonesia but can report an invite to a family dinner in Malaysia.

Mother prepared dinner. The father, son, and I sat and ate at the table and we disussed sailing. The mother and daughter sat in the kitchen and waited. It was clear to me they could eat till the "men" were finished.

They mother and daughter seemed content with this relationship.

In general, most here fail to grasp the concept of the Pyrrhic victory. The Greek King Pyrrhus attacked and defeated a Roman army. Despite victory, his army suffered loses and Rome could replenish. New Roman soldiers came back even stronger.

Conventional approaches to piracy fail because:

A. Any money or exchange leads to more piracy.

B. Any defeat leads to pirates being more letal in the future.

C. The pirates are like the Romans and have an endless supply of new recruits. Rather than making pirates less likely to attact, films like Captain Phillips staring Tom Hanks are like recruitment films and encourage more.

Well it looks like have convinced no one. So as others have said: the best approach is to stay in safer waters; and have the entire current and future life savings of all family members ready to transfer.





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Old 23-08-2014, 04:46   #158
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Well it looks like have convinced no one. So as others have said: the best approach is to stay in safer waters; and have the entire current and future life savings of all family members ready to transfer.
The problem of course is that there is only one real solution, which is to end the root causes of the piracy, which no one here is in position to do - today.

Everything else is a band-aid and is necessarily going to draw derision and controversy because it is not, and cannot be a "final solution."

In the meantime, we'll all continue with our mish-mash of paranoias, half-solutions, and armchair quarterbacking because it is fun, and because it encourages exchange of ideas, and because of the very very slim possibility that maybe, in the mix of it all, someone might accidentally stumble into a real solution that might actually get picked up and moved forward.

Until then, circumnavigation through the Mediterranean sea shall be considered extremely dangerous, and commercial ships passing through Somalian straights should plan to carry well armed and well trained security personnnel, and great care should be taken in certain other economically repressed and culturally corrupted parts of the world.
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Old 23-08-2014, 06:16   #159
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Well it looks like have convinced no one. So as others have said: the best approach is to stay in safer waters; and have the entire current and future life savings of all family members ready to transfer.
Will things be better in 37 years?

Will we ever find out the significance of that 37 year specification?

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Old 23-08-2014, 07:06   #160
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Actually IMO they are both fantasies. Have you ever tried to hit a man size target at 500 yards from the deck of a small sailboat with a 7.62? It's damn hard. Now add to that the fact they are on a small moving boat as well. Automatic fire is more effective than single, aimed rounds in this situation. Now, a mini-gun would be good....but impractical.

However, the reality is almost 100% of vessels won't be armed when/if they need it. It's not the USA, it is difficult to carry weapons on a cruising yacht. The regulations of most countries make it that way.

I have 10 years experience in the military. Recon. I have been a martial arts instructor. So I have a bit of background..

If you are cruising with the normal crew, your best tactic by far is stealth, and a good watch. You MUST see the other vessel first, and try to break contact. You will lose a confrontation.

I had this discussion with a vastly more experienced soldier than me - the retired C.O of the UK 3 Commando. He too was out cruising. We are of the same opinion. Once an attack has begun, you will lose.

However, most of the people commenting on this thread will never see this situation, or perhaps even leave (mostly US ) home waters. You are much more at risk in the larger cities int he USA than you are on your yacht somewhere...

There are FAR more likely issues for a cruising boat - Fire, Lightning, Weather, Illness. If you get too caught up in this you will never leave your couch. By all means, think about it. Have a plan for what you can. Life is a risk - But you want to live it, not just be alive. Go. Go now. Those that do almost never regret it!

+1 , in fact +100

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Old 23-08-2014, 07:27   #161
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

Some 'piracy' - eg attacking boats at anchor - is simply crime afloat. Systemic piracy - eg Somalia - is a symptom of a failed or nonexistent state, and won't be solved by the solemn pledges of a tiny, tiny handful of people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmaise View Post
Conventional approaches to piracy fail because:

A. Any money or exchange leads to more piracy.
B. Any defeat leads to pirates being more lethal in the future.
A is obvious. I don't think B is a given. I believe that commercial shipping have found affordable levels of protection and the number of commercial ships being hijacked is down (will try to back this up)

For the pleasure-boater - follow the same behaviour you'd always do as a homeowner or tourist: get educated about your destinations, take effective precautions (locks, lighting, alarms etc) to deter break ins, and avoid situations and locations that put you at more risk than you're prepared to accept.
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Old 23-08-2014, 07:33   #162
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... Well it looks like [I] have convinced no one. So as others have said: the best approach is to stay in safer waters; ...
Nope, no convincing but you got to feel better by lecturing us on history. The folks that hadn't heard that story have already forgotten it if they bothered to read it at all. They rest of us would have understood the term Pyrrhic victory. We may wash in seawater but we are not unwashed.
........

We always hear about how dangerous those US cities are, and they surely are but so what? We're not slowly motorsailing thru them vulnerable and unarmed waving .

At least I'm not. And no one in their "right" mind even gets off the interstate in injun country. With 90 gazillion islands with nice beaches and clear water around the world, why bother with lands that are dangerous?

I do realize that many circumnavigators are real tourists at heart, but I suspect many others just don't want to sail around that cape.
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Old 23-08-2014, 10:05   #163
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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Well it looks like have convinced no one. So as others have said: the best approach is to stay in safer waters; and have the entire current and future life savings of all family members ready to transfer.
....and it seems no one here was able to get you to see the weird rant you have been on. Your systematic pledge is just an idea. We all have them. How they play out in the real world will be completely different. It's the law of nature and human condition. You can't control that. The best approach is not to have your family's life savings ready. Instead, the best approach is for a cruiser to do their homework, sail in the vastness of safe areas in the world and enjoy life.
While traveling Thailand, I would always hear some self proclaimed intellectual, in a bar, spew off hours of their personal world opinion to anyone who would listen. It gets old. I liked what John Lennon once said, "Life is what's happening while you're busy making other plan".



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Nope, no convincing but you got to feel better by lecturing us on history. The folks that hadn't heard that story have already forgotten it if they bothered to read it at all. They rest of us would have understood the term Pyrrhic victory. We may wash in seawater but we are not unwashed.
........

We always hear about how dangerous those US cities are, and they surely are but so what? We're not slowly motorsailing thru them vulnerable and unarmed waving .

At least I'm not. And no one in their "right" mind even gets off the interstate in injun country. With 90 gazillion islands with nice beaches and clear water around the world, why bother with lands that are dangerous?

I do realize that many circumnavigators are real tourists at heart, but I suspect many others just don't want to sail around that cape.
Exactly...There are probably a dozen cities in the US I would not want to live in. But...There are over 19,000 cites I can live in. It's a big pool from which to choose. Voyaging is the same way. It can be dangerous enough with weather and mechanicl failures. Why add Cannibals to the mix.
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Old 23-08-2014, 12:00   #164
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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....Why add Cannibals to the mix.
"....then how can yae have yer pudding, if yae won't eat yer meat! "
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Old 23-08-2014, 12:23   #165
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Re: Take the Anti-Piracy Pledge

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If you are cruising with the normal crew, your best tactic by far is stealth, and a good watch. You MUST see the other vessel first, and try to break contact. You will lose a confrontation.
By the time we were into the 'safety" of the Red Sea we had big tender eye sockets from the binoculars. We started when we came around the southern tip of India and every morning before dawn dropped the sails so we couldnt be surprised come dawn and find another boat near us. Without sails a sail boat can't be seen from far off, less than 5 miles its hull down and the mast is too skinny to be seen, but with sails up... much further.

Every time we saw something during the day we would dump the sails.

in the convoy in the Gulf of Aden we were one of the only boats constantly scanning for pirates. Thats all one of us did the whole day, binoculars to our eyes, I kid you not, for hours and hours.

We had skiffs come up to the convoy every day and from first seeing them till when they were in the middle of the convoy way only be 30 seconds, maybe a minute, rarely more. Man they move fast!

the good bit about a convoy is if you are totally switched on and show you will put up a fight with creative defensive 'items' (we had no guns) the pirates will go to an easier target... and theres lots of them in a convoy


We really did have the binos stuck to our faces for weeks.
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