Shot gun used; Matt Rutherford glad he had it

[foolishsailor]

First honest personal experience and response since the op.

Thanks

[LeaseOnLife]

Just trying to add some (forensic?) info:

Using Matt's position shown as of writing:
Wed 7/Mar 23:01 GMT
0 29.473 N 40 13.681 W
Course: 3.3 kts, 349° true.

Looking for a position ESE (two nights before at minimal speed) from there, puts the boat over a couple of seamounts, North of Fortalezza. This is prime fishing ground in the equatorial current.

We passed this area just 3 months ago, plenty of rugged looking fishing boats. One of them called us on VHF, trying to tell us, in Brazilian, something about Tuna and long lines. We stayed clear.

With his "speed", basically drifting, he just might attract some attention of fishermen, being bored, and probably drunk. And yelling, as a first call on the VHF, in English, might not be very helpful.

[mrohr]

O.K. :This should liven things up .Many years back ,while returning from a cruise on a friends boat ,we encountered a disorganized armada of weekend
warriors fishing as we entered NY harbor at Sandy Hook New Jersey. Everybody was zigging and zagging willy nilly in their cabin cruisers while trolling, and we managed to snag some lines with our keel resulting in the loss of some lines and tackle from a large sport fisherman that was manned by a bunch of Tony Soprano types.
Now, this crew decided it would be a lot more fun to harass our Hunter 27 than to fish,so they drove around us at full speed,missing our bow by inches ,trying to crash into my prized cold molded dingy we were towing and threatening to board us. This went on for a few minutes as I ducked below and filled a pickle jar with some gasoline from a stove camper bottle and stuffed a sock inside....................and came on deck............... with my bic lighter.....



and then ,and then ,as they pulled along side and one prepared to jump on board and I was getting ready to toss my greeting into their cockpit,the sport fisherman abruptly turned away and left.

WHat Happened?

When I turned around in relief, I spied a pistol on the cockpit seat, my friend who was a swimming coach had this starter pistol (shoots Blanks) prominently displayed so these thugs decided to call the whole thing off.
My question: Would you be prepared to flick you Bic?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by nonam

I am a singlehander and I can state I feel vulnerable when I am being closely looked over by a boat load of fishermen way out on the ocean.

Thats your own personal problem and no reason for pulling a gun on people.
Perhaps you should stay away from areas where people may be inquisitive.
Bomb shelters and basements come to mind.

In fact,one of my tactics is to remain out of sight so that ,psychologically,any potential attacker cannot judge exactly what they will be dealing with and they will have some fear of the unknown.

If you stay out of sight, you yourself will not be able to see any "potential" attacker so you both may well sail past each other without any dramas.
I suggest you do this in future before jumping to conclusions and pulling a gun.

Pretty much all the fishing boats I see way out there have better communications than me and they have no legitimate reason to alter course and closely approach me.

One could argue that you have no legitimate reason to be sailing so close to them in their waters and their fishing grounds.

Now someone will twist it to say they are checking to see if I am OK.Baloney.

How do you know they aren't?
How do you know they aren't just having a look because you are the most interesting looking thing they have seen in the last few days?

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

Just trying to add some (forensic?) info:

Using Matt's position shown as of writing:
Wed 7/Mar 23:01 GMT
0 29.473 N 40 13.681 W
Course: 3.3 kts, 349° true.

Looking for a position ESE (two nights before at minimal speed) from there, puts the boat over a couple of seamounts, North of Fortalezza. This is prime fishing ground in the equatorial current.

We passed this area just 3 months ago, plenty of rugged looking fishing boats. One of them called us on VHF, trying to tell us, in Brazilian, something about Tuna and long lines. We stayed clear.

With his "speed", basically drifting, he just might attract some attention of fishermen, being bored, and probably drunk. And yelling, as a first call on the VHF, in English, might not be very helpful.

Sensible post, thanks
Poor fisherman are probably wondering about the mental stability of the crazy fker blasting a shotty at them for no apparent reason.

[foolishsailor]

I am going to end up with calouses in my nether regions from jumping back and forth over the fence.

Leaseonlife/ The above post makes good sense.

On my approach from south africa to rio the shallow water that extended from cabo frio offshore to the eaat went for miles and miles and dodging fishing boats and oil rigs was a pain.

Rwgardless of the difference between the reality of events versus those posted yI still stand by the difference between an approach out of curiosity and one out of hostility and am very curious about how they are percieved and dealt with by cruisers.

Time for bed maybe someone else will post a poll, otherwise ill have a sleep on it and post a poll myself... So curious...

[foolishsailor]

Cat man do, you are mKing seriously judgemental statements that are no more helpful than those you are railing against.

Have you been in a situation in deep water that involved a threating vessel that you felt was life threatening? How did you react?

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

....Regardless of the difference between the reality of events versus those posted yI still stand by the difference between an approach out of curiosity and one out of hostility and am very curious about how they are percieved and dealt with by cruisers. ...

OK, our scary story:

From Grenada to Trinidad, Feb 2010: A couple of days before we had been briefed by the Grenadian Coastguard about drug smuggling activities in these waters.

Maybe 25 miles out of Trinidad, 04:00 in the morning, pitch dark, we were shaking a reef out of the main, we were busy. Suddenly, "out of nowhere", a boat with no lights showed up right besides us. I was in the cockpit and turned on the spreader lights, also as a sign like "hands up". I only saw several guys with guns. Then my wife spotted the give-away: They were wearing life-vests. She called "Coast Guard". It was the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard, on patrol.

We then were boarded, and checked for drugs, in a most professional manner.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by foolishsailor

Cat man do, you are mKing seriously judgemental statements that are no more helpful than those you are railing against.

No more judgemental than those that say the boat was "clearly" a threat when they really have no idea if it was or not.

Have you been in a situation in deep water that involved a threating vessel that you felt was life threatening?

Whats a threatening vessel?

I have been several hundred miles off the coast and have had vessels that were not as pretty as mine and unlit come close check me out and do a lap around me.
They made no radio contact.
Were they bad men? How would I know, even killers smile.

How did you react?

Gave them a wave, noted it in my log book and continued on my way.
Not being brought up in a gun culture I certainly didn't wish for one at the time.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by LeaseOnLife

OK, our scary story:

From Grenada to Trinidad, Feb 2010: A couple of days before we had been briefed by the Grenadian Coastguard about drug smuggling activities in these waters.

Maybe 25 miles out of Trinidad, 04:00 in the morning, pitch dark, we were shaking a reef out of the main, we were busy. Suddenly, "out of nowhere", a boat with no lights showed up right besides us. I was in the cockpit and turned on the spreader lights, also as a sign like "hands up". I only saw several guys with guns. Then my wife spotted the give-away: They were wearing life-vests. She called "Coast Guard". It was the Trinidad and Tobago Coast Guard, on patrol.

We then were boarded, and checked for drugs, in a most professional manner.

They didn't circle you three times coming closer each time without communicating did they?

I love gun threads.

There is so much info like the poster that thinks shotguns are good for not really having to aim.

[deckofficer]

This is my first gun thread, so be gentle. For the cruiser, guns and ammo are just a hassle with unpleasant consequences during any vessel inspection in a country that doesn't allow firearms. I have a much more relaxed demeanor when I know I have nothing to hide (other than recreational herb mixed in with my cooking herb) during an inspection. With that said, how does one protect themselves when out alone? I would hope that I have the restraint not to over act in all situations short of an attempted boarding, and at that time, intentions are known. I can't speak from first hand experience, but at a time like this I hope my high altitude flares would be sufficient to repel an unwelcome boarding.

[vintageray]

I mentioned keeping a shotgun on board to a friend who is retired CG and now a delivery captain. He advised me to get a high powered rifle instead. He said to assume that any vessel approaching mine on the high sea has harmful intentions. He said that if another vessel aproaches closer than one mile to change course and if the other vessel alters course in pursuit to fire a warning shot. If the other vessel continues to close, then fire to disable the vessel before it gets close enough to engage. Obviously there are many different possible situations, but if the one occurs that gives me a sick feeling in my gut as the raggedy, pointy bowed boat with four armed men onboard speeds toward me, I think his advice is probably good. Food for thought. I'm not a gun nut and a 37mm flare gun or shotgun are more what I'd consider, but if it came down to where I could tell that I was in real danger, the rifle would probably make more sense even though it doesn't really appeal to me.

[dana-tenacity]

I heard an interesting story from the wife of a Brazilian fisherman the other day. He came home from a week out on the boat and told her that on the last night, after they had pulled in their gear and were heading home, they saw a sailing boat in the dark. It was barely moving so they circled it to see if it was OK. Then, just as they were about to pull away having seen nothing, all the lights came on, so they went back to make sure the guy didn't need any assistance.
Well bugger me, next thing they knew he was firing at them, for no reason at all. They high tailed it out of there, but her husband swears if he ever sees another sailing boat out there he'll ram it and sink it without hesitation.

[LeaseOnLife]

Originally Posted by vintageray

... He said that if another vessel approaches closer than one mile to change course and if the other vessel alters course in pursuit to fire a warning shot. If the other vessel continues to close, then fire to disable the vessel before it gets close enough to engage. ...

I don't know about the advise from your CG man, this is from a "Special Notice to Mariners" by the 1st CG district, US:

http://www.uscg.mil/d1/prevention/Na...nforcement.PDF

Coast Guard vessels may have their running lights extinguished at night while conducting law enforcement operations. Running lights, if off, will be turned on prior to boarding, and light will usually be directed at the Coast Guard Ensign flying from the mast and red "racing stripe" on the bow so that the Coast Guard vessel is easily
recognized.

They might well be closer than a mile without any lights and they do change course when you do...

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by vintageray

I mentioned keeping a shotgun on board to a friend who is retired CG and now a delivery captain. He advised me to get a high powered rifle instead. He said to assume that any vessel approaching mine on the high sea has harmful intentions.

Any vessel?

He said that if another vessel aproaches closer than one mile to change course and if the other vessel alters course in pursuit to fire a warning shot. If the other vessel continues to close, then fire to disable the vessel before it gets close enough to engage

Lets hope it wasnt a naval, CG or police vessel or any other vessel that just had normal law abiding citizens onboard like the vast majority do.

.

Obviously there are many different possible situations, but if the one occurs that gives me a sick feeling in my gut as the raggedy, pointy bowed boat with four armed men onboard speeds toward me, I think his advice is probably good.

And how would you know this a mile out?
Will they be standing on the bow with big signs saying GUNS?
Will they be wearing eye patches and flying the skull and crossbones?

I'm not a gun nut