Illegally Discharging Waste in FL

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Yeah, but I ain't wrong.

...Meh.

[dochueb]

Can I still pee at the swim-up pool bar??

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Me-and-Boo

...it is illegal to discharge in to US territorial waters and the whole of the Great Lakes.

Not true.

Originally Posted by Me-and-Boo

That includes standing in your pulpit and peeing in to the wind.

Also not true. (Probably a violation of other laws, but NOT a violation of marine sanitation laws.)

Originally Posted by Me-and-Boo

You can discharge outside the 12 mile limit without problems.

Technically true, but you can also discharge WITHIN 12 miles without problems in practically all cases.

I have read the laws and am quite sure that my statements above are absolutely correct. If you believe that I am wrong, I would be interested in a reference to a specific law that would dispute any of these statements.

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by dochueb

Can I still pee at the swim-up pool bar??

Of course! According to a lot of the posters here, you can defecate in the pool and they will be perfectly happy to continue swimming in it.

[Blue Crab]

Originally Posted by fstbttms

Yeah, but I ain't wrong.

No, you ain't wrong. Wish you had a bigger voice in the overall scheme of things.

And back on topic, let's all hope the OP follows up on situation described.

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

...
I have read the laws and am quite sure that my statements above are absolutely correct. If you believe that I am wrong, I would be interested in a reference to a specific law that would dispute any of these statements.

Or, perhaps you could support your statements, with references.

[F51]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Or, perhaps you could support your statements, with references.

Yeah Gord, seems like it should work both ways.

I would also like to see some references to the actual rules. This thread has introduced some confusion about where it is legal to pump out your tank. Specifically, some have said 3 miles and some have said 12 miles. I always thought it was 3 miles, absent some special area designation.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by F51

Yeah Gord, seems like it should work both ways.

I would also like to see some references to the actual rules. This thread has introduced some confusion about where it is legal to pump out your tank. Specifically, some have said 3 miles and some have said 12 miles. I always thought it was 3 miles, absent some special area designation.

Section 312 of the Clean Water Act prohibits the dumping of untreated or inadequately treated sewage from vessels into the navigable waters of the United States (defined in the act as within 3 miles (4.8 km) of shore). It is implemented jointly by EPA and the Coast Guard. Under Section 312, commercial and recreational vessels with installed toilets are required to have marine sanitation devices (MSDs), which are designed to prevent the discharge of untreated sewage. EPA is responsible for developing performance standards for MSDs, and the Coast Guard is responsible for MSD design and operation regulations and for certifying MSD compliance with the EPA rules. MSDs are designed either to hold sewage for shore-based disposal or to treat sewage prior to discharge.

The Coast Guard regulations cover three types of MSDs. Large vessels use either Type II or Type III MSDs. In Type II MSDs, the waste is either chemically or biologically treated prior to discharge and must meet limits of no more than 200 fecal coliforms per 100 milliliters and no more than 150 milligrams per liter of suspended solids. Type III MSDs store wastes and do not treat them; the waste is pumped out later and treated in an onshore system or discharged outside U.S. waters, i.e. the 3-mile limit. Type I MSDs use chemicals to disinfect the raw sewage prior to discharge and must meet a performance standard for fecal coliform bacteria of not greater than 1,000 per 100 milliliters and no visible floating solids. Type I MSDs are generally only found on recreational vessels or others under 65 feet (20 m) in length. The regulations, which have not been revised since 1976, do not require ship operators to sample, monitor, or report on their effluent discharges.

The 3-mile limit (of a country's sovereign territory) originally evolved in the 16th and 17th centuries from the effective range of cannon shot. If you could defend it, you owned it. A 12 mile territorial limit was set by the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea as was a 200 mile economic exclusionary zone along a country's shores save for areas where there is less than 200 miles between competing country shore lines where the boundary is generally the mid-point between the two unless otherwise agreed by treaty.

FWIW...

[Richard_W]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

The 3-mile limit (of a country's sovereign territory) originally evolved in the 16th and 17th centuries from the effective range of cannon shot. If you could defend it, you owned it. A 12 mile territorial limit was set by the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea as was a 200 mile economic exclusionary zone along a country's shores save for areas where there is less than 200 miles between competing country shore lines where the boundary is generally the mid-point between the two unless otherwise agreed by treaty.

Thank you ... good reference. One question/clarification ...

So, it was 3 miles before but now ... it is 12 miles from the shore where discharge restrictions apply. Am I interpreting this correctly?

[Group9]

I remember an accidental discharge in Key Largo, tied up to the piers at the end of the canal past crash corner.

I was walking around the deck doing maintainence, etc, and my wife was fooling around with the 12v switch panel, trying to cut the water pressure on, or something, and hit the switch to the macerator overboard discharge on the forward head instead. Seeing that huge brown cloud come out, in that beautiful clear water, while yelling at her to flip the switch back, was a really sick feeling. Then there was the long ten or fifteen minutes, waiting for it to dissipate, and hoping it would happen before anyone noticed.

So, much for having to flip three switches to empty it (when two are already in the "on" position).

[Richard_W]

Ooooopss ...

I thought there is a mandated lock and key on valve, seacock, or switch to prevent such occurrence from happening?

[Group9]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

Ooooopss ...

I thought there is a mandated lock and key on valve, seacock, or switch to prevent such occurrence from happening?

There are. Human fallability trumps them all. Ours were still open due to having come in from offshore a few days before.

[svHyLyte]

Originally Posted by Richard_W

Thank you ... good reference. One question/clarification ...

So, it was 3 miles before but now ... it is 12 miles from the shore where discharge restrictions apply. Am I interpreting this correctly?

Richard--The Clean Water Act stipulates 3 miles. I added the comment concerning territorial waters to clear up some misunderstandings of that issue but that is irrelevant to the limits specified in the clean water act. If one has a head that is in compliance with the regulations one shouldn't have any issues. Just secure the head thru-hull's when you are in NDZ areas.

FWIW...

[denverd0n]

For those who are inclined to read for themselves, details from both the EPA and the Coast Guard here Marine Sanitation Devices | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA and here USCG Systems Engineering Division (CG-ENG-3) .

Basically, if you have a type 1 or 2 MSD then you can discharge anywhere EXCEPT in a designated NDZ. If you have a type 3 MSD then you can only discharge when beyond 3 miles.

Not a word, in any of the regulations, about "going" directly over the side, or while in the water.

[Richard_W]

Good links ... appreciated ... helped me to validate what's what.

Not a word, in any of the regulations, about "going" directly over the side, or while in the water.

These issues are regulated by the land based authorities, mostly the state and local governing bodies ... me thinks.