How Many EPIRBS and Liferafts Ever Save Lives ?

[boatman61]

ROTFL..... nice one Meyermm..... Touche...

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by Hillbillylad

Quite so. The point is my concern is for her and her alone as well as the peace of mind of her family.
But indeed aye, one is better than none when all are in the same boat so to speak.

Kinda the wrong approach...

ANYONE's self preservation instinct is the strongest of all...

You survive no matter what...your actions may save the boat or organize the survival situation...all else who survive is gravy....

[gpshephe]

youre not taking a liferaft? Don't cross that street. Jimmy!!!! don't cross that creek on that log!!!!! Splash.....

[Curmudgeon]

Since when did the absence of an EPIRB or liferaft ever save a life?

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Since when did the absence of an EPIRB or liferaft ever save a life?

Good point although perhaps the absence of a liferaft may have prevented some folk from leaving a perfectly sound (i.e. watertight) vessel when conditions seemed frightful and taking their chances in a "lifesaving device (- liferaft)" that would be far less sound than the vessel they wanted to abandon.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Curmudgeon

Since when did the absence of an EPIRB or liferaft ever save a life?

Proberbly none but may have saved a few vessels.

[sabray]

Great read from the seventies before epirb. Survive the savage sea. Survived in a raft with assistance from there dinghy. How shut happens I net they would have loved an epirb. When I primarily solo sailed I dud without. Now I often have people / young ones aboard so I carry more safety gear. never mind the bitch duck that was hiding in the coaming and I just through over board/. Are duck eggs any good in a omlette/ six friggin eggs she left.

[jackdale]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Good point although perhaps the absence of a liferaft may have prevented some folk from leaving a perfectly sound (i.e. watertight) vessel when conditions seemed frightful and taking their chances in a "lifesaving device (- liferaft)" that would be far less sound than the vessel they wanted to abandon.

All sailors should read Fastnet Force 10, and commit to memory, "Never jump into a liferaft, step up into it as the boat sinks underneath you."

I do carry a liferaft offshore.

[SimonV]

Originally Posted by jackdale

All sailors should read Fastnet Force 10, and commit to memory, "Never jump into a liferaft, step up into it as the boat sinks underneath you."

I do carry a liferaft offshore.

"Never" is a big call, and we seam to hear it whenever life rafts are deployed and used. But to say never is totally incorrect, it all depends on the circumstances. I agree there a times it is better to stay with the main vessel til the end but not always.

[rgscpat]

Oh goodie, a revived thread. No claim to universal wisdom, just my own opinions and conclusions for our boat, and after reviewing the whole darn thread, here's my takeaway:

- Any one piece of equipment, by itself, is not a magic bullet.
- Would rather rely on the ideas of defense in depth, safety systems, and a balance of preparation, experience, training, seamanship, preventive maintenance, drills/training, and equipment to prevent, mitigate, and survive problems.
- People don't react the same way in emergencies. But forethought, drill, and training can make the reactions more predictable and constructive.


Us: Coastal/inland racer/cruiser, lightweight 33 footer with outboard in motor well, and very few holes in the boat, thank providence. Casual racers, occasional coastal charterers, do a bit of this and that on the water. Plan to do more coastal sailing and racing.

- No life raft. Do have survival suit, wet suits, float coats, inflatables with harnesses, type I and other PFDs, MOB pole, horseshoe, Lifesling, lights, etc.

- Do have EPIRB and PLB (both with GPS and are registered), VHF w DSC/AIS reception, GPS/chartplot, handheld VHFs, a bunch of flares including a couple of in-date SOLAS para. Also have jacklines and dual-length tethers, and the little things like lights, whistles, knives, wood plugs, radar reflector, floating ditch bag, water, emergency VHF antenna, etc.

- ASA classes, local basic boating safety classes, volunteer boating safety instructor training, done some live fire-fighting training (need to get current on first aid/CPR but my son is an EMT/wilderness EMT and would be with us most of the time). Plan to get to a safety seminar with a practical component. Grew up on the water, have done some dumb things, seen lots of other people do dumb things, and hope I've learned from them. Have some basic maintenance and improvisation skills. Duct tape does wonders. It can't fix stupid -- but it can shut stupid's mouth.

- Always a chance to do better, always something new to learn -- which for me is a huge reason I chose sailing as a major life interest.

Thoughts on the original question:
EPIRBS/PLBs have gotten cheap enough to be easy to justify. Their maintenance has also gotten less onerous.

Life rafts on the other hand, are still awfully expensive in the USA. The relatively cheap ones leave much to be desired (single tube? no inflatable floor? minimal ballast? no roof? hard to enter?), and even the more expensive ones are very skimpily equipped. Have you looked closely at some of the "comprehensive survival packages" on them? I would probably rent or buy a raft for an ocean crossing but not even think of it for coastal sailing (within 100 miles offshore in moderate waters). We might carry a dinghy lashed on the deck or in the lazarette, depending upon the type of passage.

A dumb analogy to keep the natives restless:
Buying a fancy piece of safety equipment without thinking carefully about how to use it, without fitting it in with your other equipment, and without and getting training and experience would be like...
carrying guns on board without any training, forethought, or knowledge of the laws, real risks, and consequences in the places where you will be sailing.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by rgscpat

Oh goodie, a revived thread. No claim to universal wisdom, just my own opinions and conclusions for our boat, and after reviewing the whole darn thread, here's my takeaway:

- Any one piece of equipment, by itself, is not a magic bullet.
- Would rather rely on the ideas of defense in depth, safety systems, and a balance of preparation, experience, training, seamanship, preventive maintenance, drills/training, and equipment to prevent, mitigate, and survive problems.
- People don't react the same way in emergencies. But forethought, drill, and training can make the reactions more predictable and constructive.


Us: Coastal/inland racer/cruiser, lightweight 33 footer with outboard in motor well, and very few holes in the boat, thank providence. Casual racers, occasional coastal charterers, do a bit of this and that on the water. Plan to do more coastal sailing and racing.

- No life raft. Do have survival suit, wet suits, float coats, inflatables with harnesses, type I and other PFDs, MOB pole, horseshoe, Lifesling, lights, etc.

- Do have EPIRB and PLB (both with GPS and are registered), VHF w DSC/AIS reception, GPS/chartplot, handheld VHFs, a bunch of flares including a couple of in-date SOLAS para. Also have jacklines and dual-length tethers, and the little things like lights, whistles, knives, wood plugs, radar reflector, floating ditch bag, water, emergency VHF antenna, etc.

- ASA classes, local basic boating safety classes, volunteer boating safety instructor training, done some live fire-fighting training (need to get current on first aid/CPR but my son is an EMT/wilderness EMT and would be with us most of the time). Plan to get to a safety seminar with a practical component. Grew up on the water, have done some dumb things, seen lots of other people do dumb things, and hope I've learned from them. Have some basic maintenance and improvisation skills. Duct tape does wonders. It can't fix stupid -- but it can shut stupid's mouth.

- Always a chance to do better, always something new to learn -- which for me is a huge reason I chose sailing as a major life interest.

Thoughts on the original question:
EPIRBS/PLBs have gotten cheap enough to be easy to justify. Their maintenance has also gotten less onerous.

Life rafts on the other hand, are still awfully expensive in the USA. The relatively cheap ones leave much to be desired (single tube? no inflatable floor? minimal ballast? no roof? hard to enter?), and even the more expensive ones are very skimpily equipped. Have you looked closely at some of the "comprehensive survival packages" on them? I would probably rent or buy a raft for an ocean crossing but not even think of it for coastal sailing (within 100 miles offshore in moderate waters). We might carry a dinghy lashed on the deck or in the lazarette, depending upon the type of passage.

A dumb analogy to keep the natives restless:
Buying a fancy piece of safety equipment without thinking carefully about how to use it, without fitting it in with your other equipment, and without and getting training and experience would be like...
carrying guns on board without any training, forethought, or knowledge of the laws, real risks, and consequences in the places where you will be sailing.

Great post!

[susanna reiter]

rgscpat has it right......you don't need it unless you do..and when you do, you better have schooled yourself ( and hopefully your crew) on HOW to use it properly . Footnote on EPIRBS : Be sure they are functioning properly before you take off and if you don't want to expend the money on one for that voyage/passage...BoatUS rents them..

[RUSTYNAIL]

I can't share every EPIRB rescue with you, but I tracked every 406 case in the U.S. areas for 10 years... Every year things have gotten better locating EPIRBs, and being in a raft obviously helps. 406 beacons continue to get less expensive. Also "EPIRBs" with gps get rescue personnel on scene much quicker. Offshore cruisers should consider getting some kind of 406 beacon if they go farther out than they want to swim back... Even cases where people hit jetties when they were almost home can become fatal due to a lack of communication. An EPIRB can get you millions of dollars worth of air craft over you quickly, saving you and our country a lot of search time and money.. It's a free world, but your situation may cost others a lot when you need help. .

[SailorBill1954]

I went aft 0dark30 to check the condition of our GPIRB on a Feb night in the Bering Sea near 57 N and 168 W. There was a coat of ice on the whole unit. I decided to chip the ice off with a welders hammer. It served to depress the Activation button and the strobe was activated meaning it was transmitting. I took the unit into the Captains head hoping the signal would be hidden by the steel superstructure and saving me the embarrassment of the obvious accidental alarm. By the time I got it defrosted the Sat phone was ringing with the angry voice of the Ops Mgr in Seattle telling me that the Coast Guard in Kodiak was ready to launch a C130 in 5 min if they did not get confirmation of a false distress call. After verifying the safety of my ship and crew we carried on with fishing ops. Upon arrival to my S/V Spirit in Portsmouth, RI I spent north of $1000 for the best GPIRB money could buy. COSPAS works.....use it to protect your crew.

[RUSTYNAIL]

It only takes one 406 MHz burst after a quick warm up in the EPIRB for the COSPAS/SARSAT geosynchronous satellite above you to get your EPIRB's signal. It's that good. Most new EPIRBs with gps that have a good view of the gps satellites will already have your lat/long on the first message burst. The 406 signal is a 5 watt burst and it's hard to block. Once your beacon is activated, expect call outs, and someone is warming up engines somewhere to search for you if they don't get a confirmation of a false activation. If you don't have gps in your EPIRB, it may take some time (0-102 minutes) for the low earth orbiting satellites to pass and give a general position. The test function has an inverted signal so they know it's not a real distress. Cruisers are one of the best groups of experienced and sharp boaters to get this word to the boating public to help reduce false activation sorties. Hundreds of people and their boats have been saved quickly with 406 beacons. I've sailed on ships to the north and south poles, and I can just picture you knocking ice off the EPIRB. Wow, I hate cold wx.