Air Quality for Liveaboards

[ssullivan]

So Richhh.... does this mean that there is no logical way to actually clean up all the mold in the boat? I mean... some of the mold is likely behind bulkheads and under the liner that supports the cabin sole. There is no physical way to get at this area. Any suggestions on how I could kill the mold there, when I have no access at all?

I'll give the spraying a try tomorrow...

Thanks again to everyone for so many great posts. I'm very sick of this mold and do want to rid us of it.

Also, Richhh.. you mentioned that the spores are the trouble. I read that as well. If I bomb the place, the dry, dusty spores can still drift into the air and be inhaled... I see what you mean.

All I can say is... this sucks.

[Richhh]

Thats right Sean you have to physically remove all the old and dead mold/mildew. In the worst casees for house infestation that cant be remedied, they either take it all apart and totally rebuild it ..... or burn it. The growth is sometimes found inside the insulation, inside walls, between the surface floor and the subflooring ..... arrrgh.

Physically clean-up as much as you can possibly do (wear a respirator with a goood 'dust mask' overlay ... not just a dust mask). That will reduce the 'total count' of spores in the 'atmosphere'. Dont depend on bombs, depend on scrubbing brushes (as best you can). Hygiene!

[hellosailor]

Like Richhh says...chemicals will only kill it, they won't remove it. And you still have to remove it, or entomb it. That can mean shooting insulating foam into odd places to seal them, or stripping out liners, or painting over things with a sealer like Enamelac or Bin with extra mildecide in them.

http://www.moldmildewsmellremoval.com/

One of many web sites. No miracle cures.

[DeepFrz]

Sean, make sure that your air conditioning unit is clean. It can be a source of very nasty pollutants. Also I would suggest that you always have some fresh air circulating in the boat, so a rain/snow hood over a hatch would allow you to keep it open a small amount. You need to allow enough air for your stove's combustion in any case. Perhaps a vent near the stove so that the cold fresh air gets heated before circulating through the rest of the boat.

Good luck, Deep.

[hellosailor]

"NEW! From Sharper Image! The SSullivan Autographed Limited Edition, Marine Grade Ionic Breeze!"

Sean, you really should have your marketing department contact them. Special Teak-and-stainless exterior, of course.<G>

[ssullivan]

Ha ha ha!! Hillarious!

We could market the new marine-grade "nautical" ionizer. Available in brass as well, for that old style charm.

[hellosailor]

Brass and rosewood, with a built-in shredder that you can throw money at?<G>

[Richhh]

DeepFrz make a VERY important point about AC units. You really should clean and disinfect the coils and heat transfer surfaces, not only to make them more efficient (grime and dust greatly retards heat transfer) but AC units are NOTORIOUS breeding grounds for some VERY nasty bacteria - Legionella being one 'real' bad nasty (cough, flu-like symptoms, etc.). So, also consider to clean and disinfect the coils and drip pans of your AC unit.

[Percy]

Hello ssullivan

I have been living aboard for more than 7-8 years now - in the really cold Sweden. I have try and practiced OZON-generators for many years now, it kills molds, bad odor from the toilet and a lot of other things. And the air its like "after a thunderstorm" - Fresh and clean.
From the beginning I did not trust the ads, but after a while I DO. They are very cheap compare for what you receive. You don’t need to clean the whole boat with all those chemicals an all hard work.
(I don’t sell them and it took a long time before I was convinced and buy one)

[Percy]

...............Continue......
(I don’t sell them and it took a long time before I was convinced and buy one)
The rumor that the ozon is bad for the breathing? – It’s for a very high concentration - not for these small ones – and besides If y are anxious – Close the boat and let it work when you are ashore.

[ssullivan]

Good point. We haven't used our AC units at all this summer, and will heat with wood when it gets cold. I'll clean them anyway, since they probably harbor plenty of stuff.

Thinking about it... maybe I would have less mold if I *did* use the AC!

Originally Posted by Richhh

DeepFrz make a VERY important point about AC units. You really should clean and disinfect the coils and heat transfer surfaces, not only to make them more efficient (grime and dust greatly retards heat transfer) but AC units are NOTORIOUS breeding grounds for some VERY nasty bacteria - Legionella being one 'real' bad nasty (cough, flu-like symptoms, etc.). So, also consider to clean and disinfect the coils and drip pans of your AC unit.

[EagleSailTwo]

Originally Posted by Percy

...............Continue......
(I don’t sell them and it took a long time before I was convinced and buy one)
The rumor that the ozon is bad for the breathing? – It’s for a very high concentration - not for these small ones – and besides If y are anxious – Close the boat and let it work when you are ashore.

I'm concerned now and might consider buying an Ozone generator. What size unit do you use? The idea of encapsulating dead cells sounds very doable, especially if one could use a garden sprayer type applicator to get behind bulkheads, under cabin sole etc.

[ssullivan]

We just started the removal today. I did the v berth area. There are places I can reach, and places you can't reach without tearing out teak. We bleached the foam from the cushions with a spray bottle, then put them out in the sun. There was no evidence of any mold after that.

We also brought the covers to the laundromat and bleached them like crazy too. I then used (as the CDC suggests) a mixture of soap and bleach with a bristle brush to scrub out all mold spots from every surface, even bilges. The result? A fresher smelling room and probably reduction of mold populations with a very strong chlorine smell. Not pleasant, but I have no other option.

Our plan now, is to continue this process through the entire boat, the purchase the ozone generator and blast it every couple weeks. According to the ones that were linked to in this thread, you can do a blast of it to kill everything in a house/room. I'm getting that size one so it can kill everything in the boat very quickly. I hope to be able to leave overnight, blast the thing, and then come back the next day to a clean boat.

Hope all this works. We did have a lot of mold in and behind things once I opened them up. Mostly black colored, nasty Wisconsin mold. (that's where the boat was bought)

Does anyone know if they make a "fogger" nozzle for pressure sprayers? I want to poke the thing into some small areas and do like a firefighter does when they set the nozzle to "fog" vs the stream. It radiates in all directions like a disc. Has anyone seen a non-electric way of achieving this spray pattern?

Thanks

[hellosailor]

Sean-
Dunno what's available in pressure nozzles but in the lawn and garden sections you can sometimes find "fog" nozzles for drip & irrigation systems, something like $5/10 pieces that emit a fine spray. Then you'll need to buy a stick of small diameter PVC to install them into, to make your own wand.

If you can find the "mist" nozzles, try a supermarket. They pretty much all use them to mist the greens these days, someone there should know how or where they have spares for replacements, and be able to sell you some.

There are wans sold like that for professional exterminators, but I have even less idea where to find professional poison wands.<G>

[EagleSailTwo]

Ozone Generators

What Is Ozone Air Pollution?

Ozone is a potent lung irritant and exposure to elevated levels is a contributor to the exacerbation of lung disease; it is especially dangerous for persons with asthma and other chronic lung diseases, children, and the elderly. Residential indoor ozone is produced directly by ozone generators and indirectly by ion generators and some other electronic air cleaners. There is no difference, despite some manufacturers' claims, between outdoor ozone and ozone produced by these devices.
The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) took action in 1995 against two manufacturers of ozone generating devices. The FTC charged that they made unsubstantiated claims about the ability of their products to clean air of various indoor air pollutants and to prevent or relieve allergies, asthma and other conditions. Under the FTC's settlement, the manufacturers are prohibited from making marketing claims that ozone is effective in cleaning indoor air, that their products do not create harmful by-products, and that they prevent or provide relief from allergies, asthma, and other specified conditions, unless the claims are supported by reliable and adequate substantiation (FTC, 1995).
Consumer Reports (1992), the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) (Boeniger, 1995), and the U.S. EPA (1995) concluded that tabletop and room unit ozone generators are not effective in improving indoor air quality. Studies have found that while some indoor air pollutant concentrations decline in the presence of ozone, other pollutants increase. In fact, upon reaction with ozone, some previously undetected, toxic chemicals emerge in indoor air, including formaldehyde and other alehydes (Boeniger, 1995). There is a lack of evidence in the scientific literature that would support the effectiveness of ozone at low concentrations in removing organic contaminants from indoor air (Boeniger, 1995). A recent study by the U.S. EPA demonstrates that ozone is not effective for killing airborne molds and fungi even at high concentrations (6-9 ppm) (U.S. EPA, 1995). At higher concentrations, especially above 0.08 ppm, ozone is a potent irritant that can bring about diminished lung function, cough, inflammation associated with biochemical changes, and increased responsiveness to allergens (Horstman, et al., 1990). Current evidence of the health effects of ozone suggests that there is no "safe" threshold concentration for the onset of health responses due to exposure above background ozone concentrations (Burnett, et al., 1994; U.S. EPA CASAC letter, 1995). Also, simultaneous exposure to ozone and other compounds may produce additive or synergistic effects (Last, et al., 1984; Peden, et al., 1995). In addition, persons with asthma have increased susceptibility to ozone and exposure to low concentrations results in increased symptoms, medications use and hospitalizations.
The FDA has set a limit of 0.05 ppm of ozone for medical devices. A small percentage of cleaners that claim a health benefit are listed by the FDA and these devices conform to FDA regulations. However, ozone generators, negative ion generators, and certain other electronic air cleaners that are not listed by the FDA, or cannot otherwise prove that their ozone emission levels are lower than 0.05 ppm, may produce levels of ozone recognized as unsafe for humans and are not recommended for use in occupied spaces because of the risk of generation of ozone. For similar reasons, the American Lung Association&#174; does not suggest the use of these products.

Also is this site http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html Much of these studies were done more than 10 years ago, but Ozone is Ozone and if you read it through you may come to the conclusion that maybe this isn't the way to go and thorough cleaning is as has been noted in previous posts here.