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Old 14-01-2016, 18:02   #61
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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Originally Posted by nortonscove View Post
Sounds like a load of BS told by the government to gingerly allow both parties to back away with no damage to recent improved relations. The navy effed up and the Iranians did what they had to do. The diplomats straightened it all out and this statement was the device used to placate all the rest.
Sounds plausible to me. I dont really buy the navigation equipment error either.
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Old 14-01-2016, 18:47   #62
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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Originally Posted by blewett_john View Post
You use a paper chart, plotting paper, and a sextant.
...and I have my approximate position from 45 minutes ago.
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Old 14-01-2016, 20:13   #63
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

The prudent navigator would maintain a plot with current position from which a DR course can be determined in case of failure. Running a DR plot might also warn if your GPS is being spoofed.
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Old 14-01-2016, 20:16   #64
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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Originally Posted by belizesailor View Post
Sounds plausible to me. I dont really buy the navigation equipment error either.
I wonder what their ROE was?
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Old 14-01-2016, 20:24   #65
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

The sailors were returned. Did we get our boats back?
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Old 15-01-2016, 00:23   #66
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

LiveLeak.com - USA fibbing about the boats that Iran grabbed. USA made to look silly.
Interesting read on the internet. Maybe some of it's true, maybe not. I don't believe anything that comes out of Obama's government. Sure we have back slapping relation with Iran. They are being paid up to $150 billion to play nice with the guy who is giving it to them. They going to be nice for that kind of cash. And what does the government get? SecState Kerry gets to brag that our 'good' relations are why we got our navy boys back ... so it must be a good thing that we're giving them the money. Obama gets to say that his policy is working. Something stinks about this whole thing.
----------------
USA fibbing about the boats that Iran grabbed. USA made to look silly.

The USA says that 4 fancy diesel engines, two radios and two GPS systems all went out at the same time on two boats that have a maximum range of 240 miles that were making a scheduled trip of 285 miles and magically ran up on a 1/2 mile wide island some 55 miles off of their stated coarse because nether boat had an anchor to hold them from drifting off their path when their engines quit.
Incredible, but that is what the USA is asking us to believe.
Each boat has two 625 bhp Scania DSI14 V8 Diesel engines, each driving its independent thruster. That means that if even one single engine of the four on the two boats could have kept running, than the one running engine could have towed the other boat and they could have made it back to friendly shores.
Pentagon Spokesman Peter Cook, the ships were moving between Bahrain and Kuwait when the Navy lost contact with them.
Two US Navy Patrol Boats Seized by Iranian Coast Guard | The Daily Sheeple
So, Mr. Spokesman is telling us the both the boats radios broke at the same time. He is also telling us that the boats were making a journey of 285 miles if the boats went in the shortest possible strait line from the dock the left to the dock they were going to.
The wikipedia page says the boats have a maxim range of 240 miles. (moving half speed to save fuel)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-c..._assault_craft
But the Iranians are saying that it was a "navigation system error" and that is likely because all the engines and radios were in good working order when they showed up.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/wo...oats-crew.html
Additionally, while nether the USA nor the Iranians have made any noises about closing the Straits of Hormuz, all the shipping trafic is refusing to pass. The only time that has happened in the last 20 years was when Lloyds of London insurance agency gave notice that they would not insure any ship passing through when some one falsely reported that they had heard over the marine radio that the Iranians were closing the Straits.
Additionally, the French aircraft carrier was only a few miles north west of the island the US boats went to, and the US aircraft carrier was only a few miles south west of that island. The two boats are 49 feet long hunks of metal and show up on radar like a lightbuld. There is no way both the French and the US Carrier Battle Groups could have not known exactly where the two 49 foot boats were.
USA fibbing about the boats that Iran grabbed. USA made to look silly.
The USA says that 4 fancy diesel engines, two radios and two GPS systems all went out at the same time on two boats that have a maximum range of 240 miles that were making a scheduled trip of 285 miles and magically ran up on a 1/2 mile wide island some 55 miles off of their stated coarse because nether boat had an anchor to hold them from drifting off their path when their engines quit.
Incredible, but that is what the USA is asking us to believe.
Each boat has two 625 bhp Scania DSI14 V8 Diesel engines, each driving its independent thruster. That means that if even one single engine of the four on the two boats could have kept running, than the one running engine could have towed the other boat and they could have made it back to friendly shores.
Pentagon Spokesman Peter Cook, the ships were moving between Bahrain and Kuwait when the Navy lost contact with them
Two US Navy Patrol Boats Seized by Iranian Coast Guard | The Daily Sheeple
So, Mr. Spokesman is telling us the both the boats radios broke at the same time. He is also telling us that the boats were making a journey of 285 miles if the boats went in the shortest possible strait line from the dock the left to the dock they were going to.
The wikipedia page says the boats have a maxim range of 240 miles. (moving half speed to save fuel)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CB90-c..._assault_craft
But the Iranians are saying that it was a "navigation system error" and that is likely because all the engines and radios were in good working order when they showed up.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/13/wo...oats-crew.html
Additionally, while nether the USA nor the Iranians have made any noises about closing the Straits of Hormuz, all the shipping trafic is refusing to pass. The only time that has happened in the last 20 years was when Lloyds of London insurance agency gave notice that they would not insure any ship passing through when some one falsely reported that they had heard over the marine radio that the Iranians were closing the Straits.
Additionally, the French aircraft carrier was only a few miles north west of the island the US boats went to, and the US aircraft carrier was only a few miles south west of that island. The two boats are 49 feet long hunks of metal and show up on radar like a lightbuld. There is no way both the French and the US Carrier Battle Groups could have not known exactly where the two 49 foot boats were.
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Old 15-01-2016, 09:10   #67
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

As an aside . . . I was just chatting with someone who actually served on one of these boats in the past.

He said it was unusual they would be making this long a passage. They are normally stationed in each port and assigned local escort duty and interdiction duty. They (at least the ones he was on) did not have heads.

They would have mil encrypted gps (plus probably someone would have a commercial unit as backup), a commercial radar and a multi-function VHF/UHF radio capable of encrypted communications over line-of-sight and satellite communications.

He said these vessels typically operated quite 'independently'. Usually went out, did a job and gave a patrol debrief after the fact. Often, the highest ranking member was an E-6 (Petty Officer 1st Class). Didn't use transponders or IFF, didn't report very high up the command chain.
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Old 15-01-2016, 09:41   #68
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

What happens when your navigation systems fails.....do not know for those boats, my navigation system can never fail....admiralty chart, sextant, winding pocket watch....any time, anywhere.
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:04   #69
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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What happens when your navigation systems fails.....do not know for those boats, my navigation system can never fail....admiralty chart, sextant, winding pocket watch....any time, anywhere.
You joke? Watches can stop working, charts can get blown away or not updated sextant get dropped, mirrors busted, or someone lets it go into the drink; All have happened to our friends. In some ways gps is more reliable and less fallible than the old methods.
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:08   #70
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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You joke? Watches can stop working, charts can get blown away or not updated sextant get dropped, mirrors busted, or someone lets it go into the drink; All have happened to our friends. In some ways gps is more reliable and less fallible than the old methods.
yeas, you are right. I can drop dead as well or Moby dick can swallow the boat. If that's happened to your friends does not mean that everyone is moron.
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:12   #71
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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You joke? Watches can stop working, charts can get blown away or not updated sextant get dropped, mirrors busted, or someone lets it go into the drink; All have happened to our friends. In some ways gps is more reliable and less fallible than the old methods.

None of that counts as very probable, or even possible, to these types. The only thing they see as high probability, and almost a certain guarantee, is a massive lightning bolt forged in Thor's butt catastrophically reducing all electronics to sand instantly.

And that anyone who primarily or solely uses a GPS has never paid any attention to navigation along the way.

After all, nobody ever got in navigational trouble before electronics became available.

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Old 15-01-2016, 10:25   #72
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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Jim

Read the label below the GPS screen.
Illegible and the pic wont resize.
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:28   #73
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

..it's very easy to misroute the gps system.. extremely and dangerous easy... We tried on my company years ago...
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:49   #74
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

Using aircraft navigation as an example, commercial aircraft accidents involving "controlled flight into terrain" (which quite often involved flying into mountains) has become just about non existent since the addition of gps navigation.

I would suggest the incompetent skipper that dials in a straight line course between origin and destination on their gps and then proceeds to run onto the bricks at some point along the journey would be even more inclined to commit similar stupid mistakes if using traditional methods.

The point is no matter what you use to navigate, you need to develop a satisfactory level of competency to use it correctly if you want to navigate safely.

Sent from my SGP521 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
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Old 15-01-2016, 10:51   #75
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Re: What happens when your navigation systems fails

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Illegible and the pic wont resize.
"NOT TO USED AS SOLE MEANS OF NAVIGATION" The label is also in all caps.
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