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Old 22-08-2017, 11:36   #16
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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I agree, Ann.
...called up as unidentifed sailing vessel and ordered to move out of the way of small US task force...
I know that feeling:
A couple of years ago we'd sailed down Chesapeake Bay and were approaching the bridge/tunnel off Hampton when an aircraft carrier and assorted guard ships approached from seaward. Their first VHF call advised that we were 'approaching within their 1000 yard (I think, may have been more/less?) perimeter'; I responded that actually as they were overhauling us, it was they who were doing the approaching. This response was met by an immediate repeat and a demand for us to 'change course and move away from their security cordon; to this I pointed out that any course other than that which we were already steering would only take us closer to them.

After a few seconds to consider this, the instruction was changed to 'maintain course and increase your speed to at least 12 knots (we were making perhaps five!) I then suggested that he perhaps didn't know much about sail boats, as the best I could offer was perhaps 6 knots; so perhaps I could speak to someone who did appreciate my conundrum. Another, slightly longer delay until a different voice ordered (loudly) that we 'turn immediately to starboard and move away at least 1000 yards!' I responded by pointing out that perhaps he didn't understand sail boats either as besides our inability to make twelve knots, we'd also got no wheels on the yacht, so as the beach was now less than three hundred feet off our starboard beam, that wasn't going to happen.

A longer silence followed, during which we rolled the genoa and were now motorsailing just west of south; we crossed over the tunnel and were running along the edge of Hampton Flats when the next call came: 'You now have clear water to starboard, turn immediately and move away'. I was by now losing patience and suggested that he found a chart and someone aboard who could perhaps read it, as yes there was open water, but it was only around 5' deep and we draw 6'!

More silence into which I tried to offer something constructive: "Look mate, there are two rivers here, tell me which one you want to go up and I'll steer for the other whilst you get past". That also proved unsuccesful, the reply:'For security reasons we cannot advise you of our course or destination'.

At that point I'd had enough and settled for advising them that I was going to reduce speed and motor in circles within the triangle of deep water between the two river channels until they were past and they should feel free to send a ship over to guard us (they did!) whilst they did so.

Perhaps the most ridiculous thing about the whole incident was that having watched them finally overtake us and get themselves onto a berth in the Elizabeth River, we continued on our way to the ICW and along with every other boat out there, motored past their bow within 5-600' and didn't hear a murmur on the VHF.
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Old 22-08-2017, 12:24   #17
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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... ultra sophisticated modern electronic warships being rammed by tankers? D.O.D electronics made in China. Guess what I'm thinking.
So we can look forward to US warships ramming each other, controlled by hackers in China? C'mon, much more likely some stupid kid stuffed up - it happens when you are surrounded by all that modern wizardry. I remember when one of our frigates rammed a dock in Sydney - turns out the CO had less total sea time than me, and I was a landlubber!
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Old 22-08-2017, 12:56   #18
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

perhaps the ACCIDENTS are NOT accidents but preplanned incidents.

think about it. midships hit where men sleep.
2 now same kind of hit. the usa is not hitting them they are hitting the navy. oops.

usn was not operating in usa waters
anything is possible.
many theories are plausible.
wonder what the reality is. 3 makes a pattern, very close to that now.
time to begin thought that this is a pattern against usn.
wake up america.
if it isnot a plot, then usn has become most lax and flaccid in their capabilities. must cease depending on electronix
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Old 22-08-2017, 12:58   #19
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

These Arleigh Burke class destroyers are being maned by crews typically getting by on 3 or 4 hours of sleep. Why hasn't this been brought up?
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:11   #20
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pirate Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

Just heard a news broadcast that the McCane experienced loss of steering. As far as the Tanker changing course in the straits you guys don't have situation awareness. It takes 1 KNT distance to steer a tanker 10 degrees in calm water going 12 knt. I have been the control station of a monster tanker like that and these megaboats are not easy while the US NAVY destoyers are made to jig jag to avoid torpedoes and stuff.
Ernei on the Mary Jane
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:20   #21
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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Originally Posted by zeehag View Post
perhaps the ACCIDENTS are NOT accidents but preplanned incidents.

think about it. midships hit where men sleep.
2 now same kind of hit. the usa is not hitting them they are hitting the navy. oops.

usn was not operating in usa waters
anything is possible.
many theories are plausible.
wonder what the reality is. 3 makes a pattern, very close to that now.
time to begin thought that this is a pattern against usn.
wake up america.
if it isnot a plot, then usn has become most lax and flaccid in their capabilities. must cease depending on electronix

I'm in this school of thought..
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:21   #22
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

Running stealthy should not mean running blind. No reason to turn off AIS receivers. The case for running without radar stinks. These ships are not missile subs or boomers so radar should be on, possibly on lower power settings. If Navy doctrine really means running blind in the most crowded sea lanes in the world, the Navy needs new doctrine and new management to execute it..
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:25   #23
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pirate Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

A popular Royal Navy song.. to the tune of 'Halls of Montezuma...' we sang it in the 60's and 70's.. seems nothings changed much.
"There's a buzz going round the harbour that the Yanks are going to sea..
With a crate of Cokeee Cola and a f#*@ing great tub of ice cream..
When you see their ships a coming..
Be sure to stand well clear..
Coz their bludi good kids in harbour..
But Oh My Gawd at sea.."
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:28   #24
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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These Arleigh Burke class destroyers are being maned by crews typically getting by on 3 or 4 hours of sleep. Why hasn't this been brought up?
I believe it is an FFG and doubt the crew is only getting by with 3 or 4 hours sleep. At this point who knows. You need to feel for the families of the lost sailors. I'd bet on electronic failure and a young OD? JMHO
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:38   #25
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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Just heard a news broadcast that the McCane experienced loss of steering. ...
But how many shafts do they have - three? You can steer them without rudders.
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:44   #26
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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Originally Posted by sailon46 View Post
Just heard a news broadcast that the McCane experienced loss of steering. As far as the Tanker changing course in the straits you guys don't have situation awareness. It takes 1 KNT distance to steer a tanker 10 degrees in calm water going 12 knt. I have been the control station of a monster tanker like that and these megaboats are not easy while the US NAVY destoyers are made to jig jag to avoid torpedoes and stuff.
Ernei on the Mary Jane
The report also stated that the rudder went hard over stbd Upon failure just prior to the collision Also the fitz lost steering sometime during the incident. ( when did she loose steering in relation to the collision?)
I never served on a DD so I dont know about the steering system . ( the carriers I was on were fly by whire.
(Direct hydraulic in emergency after steering) . Would be interesting to know these specifics.)
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Old 22-08-2017, 13:57   #27
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

Google is your friend. Do a search on "US Navy maintenance" and see how many hits you get about a lack of dollars to keep ships maintained. Anyone who owns a boat knows how important it is to keep up with required repairs, not to mention how many boat bucks it takes. Think about how many boats we see that are poorly maintained by their owners. Also keep in mind that some of the folks in the Navy, and military in general, may have experience with what they are doing. The military has been losing experienced officers for some time, as well as experienced enlisted men.

Not saying there could not be bad actors in the South China Sea, just that conventional wisdom is "never ascribe to malice what could easily be explained by stupidity".
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Old 22-08-2017, 14:03   #28
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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The report also stated that the rudder went hard over stbd Upon failure just prior to the collision Also the fitz lost steering sometime during the incident. ...
This starts to remind me of all those collisions between warships in the early days of RAS. When two ships travel alongside, at a given separation distance and speed, the smaller ship will suddenly and inexplicably veer towards the larger ship; collision is unavoidable. The helmsman experiences it is as though the rudders have suddenly gone hard over in the wrong direction, total loss of control, nothing he does with the helm has any effect.
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Old 22-08-2017, 14:06   #29
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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I believe it is an FFG and doubt the crew is only getting by with 3 or 4 hours sleep. At this point who knows. You need to feel for the families of the lost sailors. I'd bet on electronic failure and a young OD? JMHO
I stand corrected. If what I found on line is correct she is a DDG not an FFG.
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Old 22-08-2017, 14:07   #30
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Re: I Don't Mean to Sound Uncharitable, But...

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This starts to remind me of all those collisions between warships in the early days of RAS. When two ships travel alongside, at a given separation distance and speed, the smaller ship will suddenly and inexplicably veer towards the larger ship; collision is unavoidable. The helmsman experiences it is as though the rudders have suddenly gone hard over in the wrong direction, total loss of control, nothing he does with the helm has any effect.
When they manned after steering the rudder was hard over .
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