Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 29-06-2008, 01:25   #106
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
They work in the real world, there's no question about that.

Interestingly enough after all the playing I've done with both the Rocna and Supremes I'd say they would work a pile better without the roll bar, it can hinder deep setting sometimes. The roll bar is there just so they roll the right way up when deployed. The way Spade locked up their patent means they had little other choice except go with roll bars.


I'd include other roll bar fitted anchors as well.
__________________

__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2008, 01:49   #107
Registered User

Join Date: May 2007
Location: New Zealand
Boat: Trismus 37
Posts: 760
As I have said on other threads on CF for me the Rocna is superior to any other type I have used. That being said I would go for a Manson Supreme if I were to buy another, basically on price as they are so similar in design and are equal in setting and holding.
__________________

__________________
Steve Pope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2008, 03:12   #108
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
The roll bar is there just so they roll the right way up when deployed.
Hello GMac,

Thanks for the info. Another reason I'm leaning (not 100% sold on it yet) towards it is because I should be able to have a lighter anchor (vs CQR) to deal with[1]. I've read about this over sizing stuff & it really doesn't make any sense paying the high design price for an over sized anchor (I may as well stick to an oversized CQR ). The CQR pic I posted is 70kg, she took 2 of us to lift it up (break our backs) onto the wharf & ute, from that point on we just got a small truck with a hydraulic finger (whenever she had to be re-galvo'd etc).

Re: the rich man comment, well, I call myself a frugal man (a penny saved is a penny invested is a penny earned) having said that, I actually favor galvo rigging

[1] although I could be wrong, & I'm yet to actually see one (apart from internet pic's) & also handle it personally.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2008, 14:21   #109
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
I replaced my CQR 45lb with the one I built 20lb ruffly.
I have often wondered how the anchor would work if I removed the roll bar. I had also thought about using flat instead of tube for the roll bar. If I am slowly backing while the anchor is paying out, the anchor bites immediately on touching the bottom and just keeps sinking. If you look carefully at the pictures in the gallery, you will see a slight convex bend that acts like a wing to ensure the anchor deploys and "flies" to the bottom. It works either direction as in, if you drop it with rope rode it flies backward away from the boat and when backing it flies attitude tip down.
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2008, 17:45   #110
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Slipped anchor with the Manson Supreme

Ended up aground a couple feet above water-line in the Bahamas. The Manson was dislogded by a big power-boat throwing wake and then didn't reset in the sea-grass.
__________________
BestRevenge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2008, 17:52   #111
Senior Cruiser
 
Vasco's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Toronto
Boat: CS36Merlin, "La Belle Aurore" Ben393 "Breathless"
Posts: 7,138
Hard to believe a properly set anchor, especially a Manson Supreme, with proper scope would not hold due to a power boat wake. How high was the wake? Have been in 3, 4 foot waves for hours with that anchor, no problem.
__________________
Rick I
Toronto in summer, Bahamas in winter.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beneteau393/
Vasco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2008, 18:01   #112
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Cruising NC, FL, Bahamas, TCI & VIs
Boat: 1964 Pearson Ariel 'Faith' / Pearson 424, sv Emerald Tide
Posts: 1,531
Thumbs down Set the Bravo Sierra flags....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BestRevenge View Post
Ended up aground a couple feet above water-line in the Bahamas. The Manson was dislogded by a big power-boat throwing wake and then didn't reset in the sea-grass.
Best Revenge, with your 1 post... you sound a lot like the rest of the Rocna marketing engine.....

My Manson did not fail to set or drag ONE single time in over seven months of cruising down the East coast, and the Bahamas.... We did an awful lot of anchoring in grass. Not to say that it could not happen, but your single post on the rocna love fest thread suggests it did not.

I am sure the Rocna is a fine anchor, I looked at them and frankly choose the Manson based on the price which was quite a bit less when I looked. I bet the Rocna works fine, but I would not own one if it were given to me because I am so sick of their marketing practices....
__________________
s/v 'Faith' is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2008, 18:34   #113
Registered User
 
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 1,793
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
I think Rick's point is well taken. A properly set anchor of nearly any type shouldn't break free from a power boat wake, assuming adequate scope.

I am thrilled with the performance of my Rocna. I've been pretty impressed with the Spades I've used. Somebody needs to loan me a Manson. <grin>

I originally bought my Rocna because a friend has a Spade on his very similar boat. I think the performance of the two is very similar and the availability of the Rocna in the US has improved while that of the Spade has declined.

The Manson company looks like a "copy" company. How much of the price difference is economies of scale and how much is cutting corners? I don't know, and that lack of certainty is enough to make me nervous about Manson anchors. That doesn't take away from the positive experience of people who made different choices than I have, but I'm not going to take the risk with the boat that is my home.

You make your choices and take your chances.

sail fast, dave
__________________
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-07-2008, 19:09   #114
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Slipped anchor with the Manson Supreme

I had read so much about the resetting ability of these anchors that I was overconfident!

I have a lightweight boat that was blown to winward taking up my 75 foot of chain rhode. I dived on the anchor and it was set firmly in sand and sea-grass. The next day I was on the shoal.

I dived on the anchor line again to see what had happened. I found the spot where my anchor was 'popped' out of it's whole and then dragged without resetting in the sea-grass. I could see the tracing on the sea-grass.

After this point we set out two anchors each time in a 'Y' configuration: the Manson and a fluke anchor; which seems to have the 'sharpness' to penetrate sea-grass; althought it seemed that the Manson was holding us many times in anchorages.

I found this discussion-thread because I was looking at whether I should purchase a Rocna of a smaller size; since I speculate that an oversize anchor may be a liability in sea-grass. However, I find that they also recommend a large anchor such as what I was using i.e. 60lb Manson Supreme on a 42' 11ton boat.
__________________
BestRevenge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2008, 01:42   #115
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
If a Supreme won't work neither will a Rocna, it's that simple. A Supreme 'should' have a tiny tiny edge in seagrass with it's far sharper tip. But then seagrass is a nasty for 98% of anchors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
The Manson company looks like a "copy" company. How much of the price difference is economies of scale and how much is cutting corners? I don't know, and that lack of certainty is enough to make me nervous about Manson anchors. That doesn't take away from the positive experience of people who made different choices than I have, but I'm not going to take the risk with the boat that is my home.
Something I thought a cruiser would have considered;

Manson make most of the worlds superboat anchors, over 30,000 assorted anchors a year, is a fully Lloyds Approved manufacturer, the Supreme has Lloyds SHHP, Manson manufacturer all their anchors in NZ and they have been in business for well over 30 years.

Rocna has someone make one anchor for them and has been in business for 3 years. If they have sold 30,000 in 10 years I'll be surprised. Good on them if they do though as many boats will be better parked.

And as a FYI the only copying done between them was Rocna dropping a very Supreme looking slot in their shanks. Mind you many others also have the slot but it wasn't until R saw how many S's were being sold due to the slot one suddenly appeared in the form of the Rocna RRR.

The Supreme is cheaper for 2 reasons. One being economies of scale and the other being they make their own anchor, less hands clipping the ticket. Again it's that simple.

I'm not knocking the Rocna anchor, it is bloody good for sure but I am struggling with your purchasing train of thought, it just seems somewhat shallow and poorly researched. I can actually see why people do what you did, there is a large amount of conflicting information out there (much just wrong) and Craig could make a killing in the marketing game, he surprised many at the way he 'tweaked' all the forums. Then again many are also surprised at how many took one unknown guys word for something rather critical. He is clever chap and I am still slighlty in awe of how he did it all. But at the end of the day you have a good bit of kit so that is the main thing.

We sold a couple an anchor last year purely because 'she' could get it in red. Now that is one seriously sad thought process. I would be more spooked if it didn't happen to be a Spade so they also ended up in a good place even if getting there was rather weird. Isn't life a funny thing.

At the end of the day there is no failure proof anchor. No matter what any marketing will tell you they all can drag. Stick with the Supreme and just beaware that seagrass is an arse.
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2008, 07:50   #116
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
Slipped anchor with the Manson Supreme

Perhaps I should be on "The Sailor's Confessional" forum.

One of the reasons the Manson Supreme slipped anchor is because I did not have a snubber on the chain. After this, I put one on every time. But my point here, as a low-milage skipper, is that I learned the 'hard way' that these anchors Do Not reset instantly under any condition. The point on this anchor is blunt compared to a fluke. While the roll-bar keeps the anchor from dragging upside-down, it still is on it's side and doesn't bite until it hits some sand or mud; which it usually finds quickly. The fluke seemed to be better in sea-grass due to the sharp points.

I'm wondering now if the HydroBubble anchor may be better, because it is held in the best position to set or reset, and in the photographs appears to have a sharp tip.

Anyone familiar with the HydroBubble anchor?
__________________
BestRevenge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-07-2008, 10:01   #117
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 5
I just read the HydroBubble manufacturer went 'belly-up'. I considered this design before buying the Manson Supreme. I remember they were quite expensive!
__________________
BestRevenge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2008, 09:37   #118
Registered User
 
Auspicious's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Chesapeake Bay
Boat: HR 40
Posts: 1,793
Send a message via Skype™ to Auspicious
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auspicious View Post
The Manson company looks like a "copy" company. How much of the price difference is economies of scale and how much is cutting corners? I don't know, and that lack of certainty is enough to make me nervous about Manson anchors. That doesn't take away from the positive experience of people who made different choices than I have, but I'm not going to take the risk with the boat that is my home.

You make your choices and take your chances.
Manson make most of the worlds superboat anchors, over 30,000 assorted anchors a year, is a fully Lloyds Approved manufacturer, the Supreme has Lloyds SHHP, Manson manufacturer all their anchors in NZ and they have been in business for well over 30 years.

<snip>

The Supreme is cheaper for 2 reasons. One being economies of scale and the other being they make their own anchor, less hands clipping the ticket. Again it's that simple.
The Lloyd's Register Approved Manufacturer's scheme is intended to recognize manufacturers for the standards they apply through documented and applied processes. Listing under the scheme is at the initiative and the expense of the individual manufacturer. Two important factors should be borne in mind: 1. the emphasis is on documented process with implementation only evaluated at the time of inspection, 2. listing is quite expensive and many first rate manufacturers choose not to undertake the cost. All that said, LR Approved Manufacturer's scheme is certainly better than the ISO 900x certifications. LR at least evaluates the processes (particularly for materials selection) for quality; ISO doesn't care what you do as long as you do it the same way every time and it's documented! <grin>

The SHHP designation, again, is at the initiative and expense of the manufacturer. Manson presumably made a business decision that the expense was a good investment. Rocna, Lewmar, and Sea Tech & Fun (the new Spade manufacturer) presumably made a business decision (at least by default) that the expense was not a good investment.

When I look at Manson's product line, I see a CQR copy, a Bruce copy, a version of a Navy anchor, a Danforth copy, an interesting variation on a fisherman (that does show some intriguing creativity), and the Supreme.

It is certainly possible for a company with a portfolio of "cash cows" as they say in business school, to take a risk on innovation and in-house creativity. It doesn't happen very often however.

I have surely heard the consistent Rocna story that is their version of events. I vaguely recall a single statement from Manson that was civil but not very illuminating. I've read your version of events at least once as well Grant.

At the time I made my choice I was not able to inspect a Manson. There were too many unknowns. I had seen a number of Spade and Rocna anchors in the US and UK. A friend of mine with a very similar boat already had an S80 Spade, so in the interests of expanding the base of information I bought a Rocna 25. The price was consistent with what a Spade would have cost. I expect I would have been just as happy with an S100 Spade as I am with my Rocna.

I still haven't had the opportunity to see a Manson Supreme, much less try one out. I have heard a few good reports about the Supreme (almost always with a comment on cost, which is interesting) and don't recall any negatives. There have been many many good reports about the Spade, and only one quite unfortunate one that seems to based on what I read to be operator error and not an anchor problem per se. The positive reports on the Rocna also continue to grow.

My understanding is that since the purchase of the Spade anchor brand by Sea Tech & Fun that availability is not as reliable as previously, at least here in the US. West Marine no longer lists Spade in their catalog although there are still a couple on the shelf at my local store. Manson and Rocna are both easily available through WM as well as other chandleries.

If I had to make the choice again today I would likely discount Spade due to both price and availability (they seem to have gotten more expensive while becoming harder to find in the US). The continued good results reported for the Rocna and my personal experience with its robust construction make it difficult to justify taking a risk with a Manson when there are more unknowns from my own perspective with that brand to save around 100 USD on a purchase as critical as ground tackle. As I said above you make your choice and take your chance.

I do take your point Grant that some of the cost savings is likely to be economies of scale and a shorter supply chain.

Sometimes you do pay a little more for confidence, and confidence can be difficult to pin down.

sail fast, dave
__________________
S/V Auspicious
AuspiciousWorks
Beware cut and paste sailors
Auspicious is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2008, 09:53   #119
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
I hate to post in an anchoring thread, but I really don't think there is such a difference between them all.

I've anchored in all bottom types from the Keys to Maine, lived at anchor for several years, anchor in reversing 3-4 knot currents, tropical storms, major squall lines with 60+mph winds, in sand, mud, gravel, etc...

In all that, I have never once dragged with either a 45lb CQR on a 45' mono, or a 45' Delta on a 34' cat. Both anchors came with my boats. Both anchors served me well.

I just don't understand all this dragging talk... I've seen it happen, but don't get how it does.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-07-2008, 09:59   #120
Marine Service Provider
 
AnchorageGuy's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Wherever the boat is!
Boat: Marine Trader 34DC
Posts: 4,618
Sean, I am with you. In 16 years of cruising in almost every type of conditions we have never had our CQR drag ONCE IT IS SET. We have had conditions where it was difficult to set such as heavy sea grass and thin layers of sand over a flat coral surface and I am not sure if any type of anchor would have done differently. We have been at anchor in 6 different hurricane conditions and the anchor held tight.
__________________

__________________
Chesapeake Bay, ICW Hampton Roads To Key West, The Gulf Coast, The Bahamas

The Trawler Beach House
Voyages Of Sea Trek
AnchorageGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, rocna

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spade Anchor Unsafe - Remedy ? GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 37 04-04-2009 01:19
CQR Anchors ssullivan Anchoring & Mooring 79 12-12-2006 07:43
xyz anchor rated "best" by Practal Sailor for mud Ram Health, Safety & Related Gear 8 23-04-2006 21:26
Anchor Spring Lines GordMay Liveaboard's Forum 3 15-11-2003 14:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.