Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 11-02-2008, 00:10   #91
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
Umm Darryl, that lightening storm keep you awake all night???
You have to wonder after that post don't you. But then again the strange things come form the strangest of minds at the strangest of times. He just may be onto something.

Just ran a few simulations and it appears you may have over looked a serious issue. Sprats love chunky peanut butter so shortly after deployment the holding power starts to decrease, after an hour or so you have next to none left. Did find up big upside though, lots of Kingfish suddenly appear May I suggest Tapioca Pudding, it appears fish don't like that either


Quote:
GMac is actually right in what he is tryign to say. But the replies from ohter members is also correct. We don't allow an anchor to settle.
Correct Mr Wheeler, Sir
As you set the anchor it creates a disturbance in the force.... opps seabed (bloody Star Wars trilogy the other night). This is especially true for anchors like the Sarca, Supreme, Rocna, ploughs to a degree and a few others, mostly the ones with protrusions like rollbars, big knuckles and things like that.

An anchor can be 'set' in 2 minutes but then needs to 'settle' to get the better holding from it. While settling they can often sink a bit further down, bottom willing, everyting 'packs' itself around the anchor and so on. Once they have settled many would do better in the tests than they currently show.

As rleslie mentioned above very few people even bother to do any sort of power set or set at all, myself included 95% of the time but my boat is capable of doing it for me so I'm lucky.

While cruising around just watch boats that drag. You'll find many do quite soon after anchoring or after a big wind/tide change which un-settles the anchor. After a time the anchor 'sets and settles' and give the bigger holding. In all the tests I've seen and done (just about) we have not let this 'settle' happen, if it had I'd suggest we would see some anchors get far better numbers. I'm 'suggesting' from sussing by the way, details to follow.

Quote:
The only true test in this way would be trying to measure two identical anchor designs side by side. Not sure what the point of that would be. To gain maximum holding power, the rode should be suited to the anchor, be of the correct length and the correct angle. There may in fact be such a test done that way some where. But I have not ever seen one carried out.
Watch this space. Phase one of the Head to Head Shoot Out happened 3 weeks ago and the next in a 10 days odd when they give my bloody boat back, OK his boat but I want it back all the same. You'll find it interesting, not life changing but interesting all the same. And absolutely no-one who manufactures or markets any anchor was there, Ahhh.. the peace was lovely

Quote:
Interestingly, has anybody had anything to do with the Sarca anchor?? Yet another spade with a hoop. But slots cut in the flukes. Not sure what the methodology is behind the slots.
The Sarca is not a 'spade' type anchor as we know it i.e Spade itself and derivatives like the Rocna, Supreme and the few others. It is more a plow type. The slots are to help wash the muck off on the way up and make it easier to release, so I'm told. I can understand the cleaning bit but why would you want a quick release anchor?, can't get my head around that. Again the hoop for orienting it the right way as used by a few.

They do set well but don't have big holding power compared to many others, surprisingly low actually. Saying that they are very popular here with the fishos and as long as you don't use Sarcas recommended chain lengths (ridiculously short) they will do the job fine more often than not.

Watch this space again, the new Sarca is due any day now, so I'm told.

CSY Man - damn good to see someone who is very happy about swapping from Delta to Rocna. There are many others as well but when they go from 10kg Deltas to the 'recommended' 20kg Rocnas they don't count. Good to see someone take the advantages of the Rocna over the Delta without being 'suggested' into anchors miles larger. Just like a guy who was told "If you go to a 33kg Rocna you will be far better off', Well hello! going from a 21kg plough would you expect anything less? Fortunately for him I was there to give CPR when I walked down to his boat with a 33. He is now happily parked on a 25kg even though a 20 would have been just fine.
__________________

__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2008, 00:25   #92
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 976
Images: 6
PHP Code:
Study hall "Sticky Anchor"
 
Now before you start to lower your anchor (any kind of anchor), liberally
 apply lots of ETA peanut butter
No other brands seem to workYou 
have to 
use EtaYou can use crunchy or smooth peanut butter though.
 
The crunchy does work best in sand and the smooth does well in rocky
 bottoms
.
 
 
You will stick like a rock and sleep wellIn the morning when you go to
 leave
don't put it on your toast. You never know who emptied their
 heads during the night.
 
 
Well the secret is now out. 
Now foxy whilst I agree that this does indeed work, I do take issue as to your statement that it was "your secret". I t is a well known fact that vegimite has been used with the exact same degree of success for many years. This being an Australian substitute for the lesser holding power of honey. There is absolutely no proof that the crunchy bits in peanut butter do actually increase holding power, and there is a number of tests to prove it. It is largely cosmetic and designed to make it more apealling to new sailors. This is indeed the main difference between smooth peanut butter and vegimite, THE COLOUR ONLY... The much smaller known but equally successful marmite was bought out by an english company and as such all but disapeared.----I would thank you kindly to keep your facts straight in the future as your miss leading comments might tempt lesser sailors than yourself to go trying anything, possibly with disastrous results.......
__________________

__________________
cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2008, 00:54   #93
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooper View Post
The much smaller known but equally successful marmite was bought out by an english company and as such all but disapeared.----I would thank you kindly to keep your facts straight in the future as your miss leading comments might tempt lesser sailors than yourself to go trying anything, possibly with disastrous results.......
Hey calm down Aussie, Marmite is alive and well, rampant one might say.

Yes I completely agree with your 'be careful' comments. You never know who may read this and go hard out with marmalade for example... Oh god golly the consequences could be horrible.

Just ran a marmalade simulation and nope, the peels bit don't actually increase holding in anyway. Bit surprised about that, I though they would have
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2008, 01:09   #94
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 976
Images: 6
Well MR Gmac that is exactly my point...Firstly let me apologies for the tone of my post, but these things upset me greatly. I will admit that it was infact promite that i meant. The error was through an sales agent. On an intersetin g note recent tests have given unusualy and unexpected good results to a piece of processed slice cheese. This highly unorthodox method is gaining momentum amongst a wide range of pundits....
__________________
cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2008, 01:22   #95
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by cooper View Post
Well MR Gmac that is exactly my point...Firstly let me apologies for the tone of my post, but these things upset me greatly.
Quite understandable really and I do feel your pain.

Quote:
On an intersetin g note recent tests have given unusualy and unexpected good results to a piece of processed slice cheese. This highly unorthodox method is gaining momentum amongst a wide range of pundits....
And I bet its the same bloody stuff they use at McDonalds. Had a cheese burger thing once and had to damn near surgically remove the cheese like substance from my roof of my mouth. Stuck like the taxman to your paypacket.
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2008, 01:32   #96
Senior Cruiser
 
Alan Wheeler's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Marlborough Sounds. New Zealand
Boat: Hartley Tahitian 45ft. Leisure Lady
Posts: 8,038
Images: 102
Ummm, Hi everybody. My name is Alan and I...err...umm... am a Marmite user.
But it's home made, so it's not quite the same....doesn't that make a difference?
__________________
Wheels

For God so loved the world..........He didn't send a committee.
Alan Wheeler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2008, 01:49   #97
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 976
Images: 6
......not really because its probably the best thing since sliced cheese...........
__________________
cooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2008, 21:37   #98
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
Ummm, Hi everybody. My name is Alan and I...err...umm... am a Marmite user
Mate, once you try “promite” - you'll be quite surprised

Not wanting to reignite the Rocna debate (or am I? )

Below is a pic of a 70kg CQR with a bent shank[1]. This shows that the CQR does hold well (at times ). The blow that caused it to be hooked so far deep into the bottom was probably close to 60kts.

(click pic to enlarge)
Click image for larger version

Name:	anchor_01.jpg
Views:	153
Size:	44.2 KB
ID:	4082

Although the CQR did hold well for us (most times ), there were a number of times it would either take a couple of attempts at laying it or it would come free once the winds really started screaming[2]. In the later, you don't want to be mucking around resetting (especially in the dark) when you've got trouble maneuvering your vessel in high winds (especially if you've also got a trip rope & floats to retrieve before they ride past your prop).

I've read some comments about the use of a skillet (extra weight before anchor) on a similar thread. The use of a skillet would make sense if you've already got your anchoring equipment established & you don't want to replace it. However, a skillet is probably not something I'd want to muck around with (i.e. laying & retrieving) when the winds really start to scream.

Having said all that, I'm leaning towards the Rocna. I'm also inclined on commercial type winches[3] (with chain, oversized shackles/swivel & trawl wire[4]) & a stern anchor.

[1] FYI: she was repaired, not replaced.
[2] To a Kiwi that would probably mean 45kts+.
[3] Hydraulic deck drum with rollers (guided finger on a SS bar with a grooved track) & manual wheel (backup).
[4] Rope also works well (if using partial length chain from the shank), but it must float (using positioned floats) well off the bottom.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-06-2008, 22:45   #99
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by exfishnz View Post
there were a number of times it would either take a couple of attempts at laying it or it would come free once the winds really started screaming
In reference to my above quote (as I can't edit the post), I assume that this was probably because the CQR may not have been dug in good enough to begin with - but just good enough to trick you into thinking she's holding well.
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2008, 04:48   #100
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Fremantle Australia
Boat: Schioning 12.3 "Wilderness" Bi-Rig under construction
Posts: 558
Send a message via Skype™ to Whimsical
A skillet? Have one of those in the galley but how do I attach it to the chain.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Kellet

Mike
__________________
Whimsical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2008, 05:02   #101
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whimsical View Post
Sorry couldn't resist.

Kellet

Mike
You're correct, I've got a bit of a "word" mix up (must be the Aussie booze over here ).
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2008, 17:52   #102
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: seattle
Boat: Devlin 48 Moon River,j/100 BJ
Posts: 586
You might want to check out practical sailors back issues. they tested many anchors head to head
__________________
eyschulman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-06-2008, 20:30   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Wheeler View Post
Simply pull till it breaks out is not a true test for just the anchor and certainly not a true test for differing designs. The only true test in this way would be trying to measure two identical anchor designs side by side. Not sure what the point of that would be.
I think the only real test is to use the same boat in the same waters in the same weather in the same tide etc, oh & over a number of times

The only thing that leans me towards the Rocna is that it's got no lead weight, roll bar, the initial digging in is quicker & it's SS (one less thing to re-galvo). Apart from that, CQR's (& other's) hold quite well once fully set & settled (re: the pic of the bent CQR shank I posted).
__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2008, 01:12   #104
Marine Service Provider
 
GMac's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: North of the Bridge, thankfully
Boat: R930
Posts: 1,659
Quote:
Originally Posted by exfishnz View Post
Rocna is that it's got no lead weight, roll bar, the initial digging in is quicker & it's SS
SS... whoo. So you're a very rich man then

Why do you say the roll bar is a selling point for you?
Interesting comment, the roll bar puts many off the Rocnas and Supremes.
__________________
GMac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29-06-2008, 01:15   #105
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2008
Boat: Designing a global explorer (full keel & steel)
Posts: 353
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMac View Post
Why do you say the roll bar is a selling point for you?
Seeing how it works from the demo video on their site. Having said that, the demo is one thing, reality is another
__________________

__________________
exfishnz is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
anchor, rocna

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spade Anchor Unsafe - Remedy ? GordMay Health, Safety & Related Gear 37 04-04-2009 01:19
CQR Anchors ssullivan Anchoring & Mooring 79 12-12-2006 07:43
xyz anchor rated "best" by Practal Sailor for mud Ram Health, Safety & Related Gear 8 23-04-2006 21:26
Anchor Spring Lines GordMay Liveaboard's Forum 3 15-11-2003 14:04



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:06.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.