How many anchors do you carry?

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

The majority of boats in marinas everywhere just have whatever anchor the boat came with. And many of the owners couldn't care less because they never use their anchor in any serious capacity. But there are definitely more people looking to get rid of CQRs than there are people wanting to buy them. I'd bet most people buying them are only buying one because it was cheap and they've never had experience with anything better.

I have had experience with most of the anchors out there at one time or another.
I have a lead sled so weight is not a concern but my primary is a CQR my second for my current grounds i'd my danforth S27. I do have a bruce as a stern / kedge/ kellet . No I don't trust it as a primary. I also have a box anchor they fold flat to store and when used correctly they hold good . ( they are a short scope anchor. ) mine was free. Previous owner couldn't get it back and I snagged on it ) 2:1 scope by manufacturers)
The only anchor I don't have I do want is a genuine real folding northill.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I have had experience with most of the anchors out there at one time or another.
I have a lead sled so weight is not a concern but my primary is a CQR my second for my current grounds i'd my danforth S27. I do have a bruce as a stern / kedge/ kellet . No I don't trust it as a primary. I also have a box anchor they fold flat to store and when used correctly they hold good . ( they are a short scope anchor. ) mine was free. Previous owner couldn't get it back and I snagged on it ) 2:1 scope by manufacturers)
The only anchor I don't have I do want is a genuine real folding northill.

I wouldn't want the Bruce or the Box anchor any more than the CQR either.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

I wouldn't want the Bruce or the Box anchor any more than the CQR either.

Your boat your choice
However I would venture to guess you have never actually used a box. And likely never used a bruce ( although I agree not either as a primary except on my tender. Which has a 5 pound grapple anchor .

[Auklet]

It’s hard to imagine that most anchor discussion is based on users experience with different anchors of various sizes on a range of bottom types, etc. Has anyone really dragged lately? How do we really know a “good one” from a “bad one”? The few times I’ve dragged, not lately, was due to not getting the anchor set properly, etc. Did somebody drag in high wind then change anchor for another type of same relative heft and not drag in the same conditions? Is one pair of observations enough? Seems that all we have is knowledge of static tests and a few one-off testimonials to rely on.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Auklet

It’s hard to imagine that most anchor discussion is based on users experience with different anchors of various sizes on a range of bottom types, etc. Has anyone really dragged lately? How do we really know a “good one” from a “bad one”? The few times I’ve dragged, not lately, was due to not getting the anchor set properly, etc. Did somebody drag in high wind then change anchor for another type of same relative heft and not drag in the same conditions? Is one pair of observations enough? Seems that all we have is knowledge of static tests and a few one-off testimonials to rely on.

Hmmm, not exactly. There are mountains of tests run by everyone from anchor manufacturers, to independent folks like Practical Sailor and our own Panope.

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hmmm, not exactly. There are mountains of tests run by everyone from anchor manufacturers, to independent folks like Practical Sailor and our own Panope.

As I said, static tests. Do we have hands-on “experts” or merely experts on the literature? Performance of each of my three anchors has not given me pause to go exploring to replace one that does not drag with another one that does not drag. I guess I’m looking at functional equivalency.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Auklet

As I said, static tests. Do we have “experts” or merely experts on the literature?

What does "static" mean, in this context?

[Auklet]

Originally Posted by Panope

What does "static" mean, in this context?

A controlled test using constant (unidirectional) pull from a machine or device to measure holding power, as I understand it. Not performance under actual conditions with all of those variables.

[Panope]

Originally Posted by Auklet

A controlled test using constant (unidirectional) pull from a machine or device to measure holding power, as I understand it. Not actual performance under actual conditions.

There is no question that the gold standard test would use real boats and real conditions (wind, waves, and currents). This of course would take many orders of magnitude more time and money than "test boat" testing.

Think 10 identical boats anchored in the face of a storm. Do it at least three times. Then repeat all over the world in at least 10 different seabed types. Then repeat it all again with different sized boats and gear. Then repeat it again with different scopes, and rodes. In other words: Impossible.

Dynamic testing has been a large part of my testing from the beginning. Sets with high boat speed, 180 degree resets, veering, and perhaps most important - video footage of anchors that were actively moving and/or dragging.

Here is my first ever anchor video from 8 years ago. While it is not much of a test (and a very boring video), it is a good example of my efforts to expand anchor testing beyond "static" testing.

Skip to the 3 minute mark for some "action"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDJwRd-D7vA

[Foswick]

Anchors are for sissies. I hold the boat in position through sheer will and my dominion over the forces of nature.

(Don't tell my insurance company.)

[GordMay]

Originally Posted by Foswick

Anchors are for sissies. I hold the boat in position through sheer will and my dominion over the forces of nature...

Good on ya!
Willpower can, also, make you rich.
If, you get in the right person's will.

[Tin Tin]

Over 25 years -two. A Rocna and a Brittany which came with the boat and has never been used. On previous boat, two a Rocna and a Fortress which was used once as a stern anchor at Double Breasted Cay, Bahamas and before that a CQR and a Danforth, the CQR dragged once in 12 years and the Danforth was used in an emergency when main anchor jammed.

[Mike OReilly]

Thanks Panope, I was just about to respond in kind. Your tests are hardly "static." And neither are some done over on PS.

I get what you're saying Auk, and I agree, no test can account for all the complexity and variability of real-world anchoring. This is why I'm not anal about following any particular test results (although Panope's are the best ). But I'm not sure what you're is asking for. It sounds nearly impossible.

What the tests can do is show characteristics of performance that users can then take with them into the real world. And these can be compared with the anecdotal evidence of actual cruisers. Anecdotal evidence is usually the worst kind of data, but a lot of anecdotes can add up to something useful.

[lifeofreilly57]

The only anchor strayed away from was my original CQR, like the plow it was designed after it liked to plow rather than reset. In very clear water with a good bottom and moderate winds (14 t 18 knots) I watched it plow then lay over on it's side and not reset. This was on my previous racer/cruiser that weighed 16,000lbs and didn't have a windlass, hand pulling and setting the anchor. 250' of rode with 40' of chain at a 6 to 1 set.
The replacement Bruce worked flawlessly in similar conditions.
There are many more options out there now, many are similar to the Mantus type and usually reset well, of course, depending on bottom type.
To make a blanket judgement would be incorrect, whats the boat, whats the cruising ground, what rode, what's your anchoring procedure.
I found most dragging boats in storms didn't use proper anchoring techniques or enough anchor chain/rode, regular days I'd go with 5 to 1 or 7 to 1 ratios, when the wind kicked up it'd be more like 10 to 1.
The best one I had to jump in the dinghy to help other reset and anchor was a 70' luxury cat. The owners anchored it near us and left for 3 weeks, it started dragging when the wind hit 30 knots, when the wind hit 45 knots it was out of control heading for a reef. Other cruisers and I jumped into our dinghies and got it re anchored, the keys were under the pilots seat.
When we pued te anchor up we found thy barely had a 4 to 1 ratio of rode and a barely adequate anchor. Put it in another location with better bottom holding and the proper amount of scope. This type of issue crops up a lot, especially when owners try to force anchoring in an already full anchorage so they can be closer to the beach and can't use enough scope in the space.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by lifeofreilly57

This type of issue crops up a lot, especially when owners try to force anchoring in an already full anchorage so they can be closer to the beach and can't use enough scope in the space.

This is where a big anchor comes in and is part of why many of us are a fan of up-sizing a bit beyond what's really needed. Short scope performance varies a bit between anchor designs, but for the most part, you lose some holding power at short scope. So if you have a bigger anchor, as long as you use enough scope for the anchor to reliably set or reset, you have more "extra" holding power beyond what's needed for the current conditions. Which means you can afford to throw away more holding power with short scope, especially in decent weather. So a bigger anchor can let you fit into tighter spaces as your minimum scope requirement goes down.