Anchor Warranties

[congo]

YES YES NOELEX,


Even if your octopus chews away the fluke we will refund fully, in Australia only to original owners regardless of cause, same over sea but will only pay the freight one way.

We did this some 5 years ago, a gentlemen bought a No 7 Sarca in the U.K. it was when New Zealand was manufacturing our anchors some five years prior, the gentlemen had been using the No 7 Sarca in force ten winds and bent the shank, I should point out that the company making our product over in N.Z. were shonky so we will never know the true reason, any way we replaced his anchor freight one way, and he thought the sun shone from where it doesn’t in me.

He still contacts us every now and then keeping in touch and still often express his gratitude during conversation, so looking after customers has it’s merit.

Any way his full story is on our web site as the RNA was called out to rescue him.

Rex CEO of Anchor Right Australia.

[noelex 77]

Thanks Rex that is great news
I will update the details on the first post to make your position clear.
Let me know if the summary is incorrect in any way

[congo]

I was giving some information to Noelex re our warranty on a boat caught in force ten knots in the U.K. and I said the rescue boats were the RNA silly me they were the RNLI British Sea Recue sea, any way the guy said he did not need rescuing even though his old sarca was bent it certainly did not let go. May I aslo add a fair effort for a 25 K.G. ANCHOR.

If nothing els it makes a good read.


http://www.wirralglobe.co.uk/news/45.../#commentsList

His full story is under featured news on our web site if anyones interested.

Rex CEO of Anchor Right Australia

[JonJo]

An anchor that has a propensity to bend is not an anchor - its a disaster waiting to happen (and should be consigned to scrap - the next Chinese aircraft carrier perhaps?

An anchor with a shank with a strength of much less than half the strength of a Supreme or Excel and slightly less than half the strength of a Rocna is a disaster waiting to happen. Warranty will not alter this - its still a pending disaster.

Focus on safe anchors, once we have safe anchors then lets get into warranties. Get rid of the products whose strength criteria is based on cornflakes and we have a product and an industry we can address, currently a crusade on warranties is a joke. Tomorrow those warranties are worthless - if the company no longer exists - get decent, simple specifications that are agreed and measurable. Forget cutting corners, forget slick videos. Let us have honest to goodness decent anchors. All anchors can bend - lets get rid of those that will bend under normal anchoring conditions.

Forget warranties

Lets get real - we want anchors that meet strength characteristics, that will meet 90% of anchoring conditions. Fortress use strong alloy and a sophisticated engineered shank, Manson and Anchor Right use Q&T steels, CQR have drop forged T sections, Spade have a hollow box section shank, Ultra have a 'box' section with a reinforced interior, Rocna use a hi tensile steel - but we have anchors made with not much better than mild steel and a section half that of anyone else - and CF does not even blink an eye-lid (except a witch hunt on warranty).

I do not want an anchor where the manufacturer has offered a lifetime guarantee and free shipping (not much use in Easter Island and not much use if the supplier no longer exists). I want an anchor that is built to a decent quality, I want to know that my neighbours anchor is also built to that quality (as I do not want his bow rammed through mine).

Focus on quality and then persuade decent warranty.

But a warranty on something with the strength of wet MDF has little value in an American court of law.

Jonathan

[Mantus Anchors]

Guys I am late for a sailing race... I am eager to address this post when I arrive (hopefully victorious ........
in the mean time throw all the questions at me
Greg

[gabilo]

Well, it is not really an issue of great urgency, merely a discussion on CF. After the race he is happy to address any further questions! Does it make any difference to you or any of us if we can follow up on this in a day or two.... Don't think so!

[Fortress]

Noelex,

Thank you for your kind words about our warranty. I would like to make sure that it is accurately presented:

• We offer a Lifetime Parts Replacement Warranty. If a customer damages any anchor part, we will replace it for free. The only cost to the customer is for shipping & handling, which is usually nominal since we ship parts via the US Postal Service, unless the customer requests otherwise. The US Postal Service rates are typically far less expensive than UPS, FEDEX, DHL, etc.

• The customer does not have to return the damaged parts to us. However, if the customer is asking us to send them the parts that will make up a complete new anchor, then we will ask the customer to send us an image for inspection.

• To take advantage of our warranty, a customer does not have to produce a sales receipt, nor is it required that they had previously registered their purchase by sending in a warranty registration card.

• The customer does not have to be the original purchaser. He could have bought it second hand at a garage sale, or on eBay, or found it on the bottom of the ocean.

JonJo has a very strong point regarding the materials of an anchor vs. the warranty offered by the manufacturer. Simply stated, a terrific warranty certainly does not offset poor material quality for such an important piece of safety equipment.

I know that Rex at Anchor Right is very passionate about extensively testing his designs and using the highest grade of material for his products. We at Fortress applaud his efforts.

Our company founder shared this same passion and he conducted thousands of tests, oftentimes to destruction, before he sold anchor No. 1 to the boating market.

I would hope that any anchor manufacturer with a product to offer to the boating market has done the same. Further still, boaters should demand to know this before investing in their products.

Safe boating,
Brian Sheehan

[colemj]

Originally Posted by Fortress

If a customer damages any anchor part, we will replace it for free. The only cost to the customer is for shipping & handling

Brian,

That is a complete lie. I bought a second hand Fortress that did not have the mud palms on it and you shipped them to me free without charging me any shipping and handling fee.

Sheesh, getting anchor manufacturers to tell the truth is like pulling teeth.

Mark

[noelex 77]

Thanks Brian
Glad we are back on track talking about warranties.

I will amend the details. It should be remembered that with the lightweight aluminium bolted construction that the delivery costs one way are going to be very low. Other cruiser's have reported you have even sent parts for free that have been lost (like mud palms). I don't think this sort of support should go un rewarded and I happy to crow about it to anyone that will
listen.

Edit: I see you beat me too it Mark.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by JonJo

An anchor with a shank with a strength of much less than half the strength of a Supreme or Excel and slightly less than half the strength of a Rocna is a disaster waiting to happen. Warranty will not alter this - its still a pending disaster.

Focus on safe anchors, once we have safe anchors then lets get into warranties. Get rid of the products whose strength criteria is based on cornflakes and we have a product and an industry we can address, currently a crusade on warranties is a joke.

I agree that a warranty will be of cold comfort if you lose your boat due to an anchor failure. The quality of the warranty does not necessarily indicate the quality of the anchor (although there is probably at least some correlation).

I cannot, however, agree with the logic that "An anchor with a shank with a strength of much less than half the strength of a Supreme or Excel and slightly less than half the strength of a Rocna is a disaster waiting to happen". This would be true only if both (a) it has been demonstrated that the shank is half or less the strength etc., AND (b) the Supreme, Excel or Rocna shanks are just barely adequate. To the latter point, if the Supreme, Excel and Rocna shanks were, for example, 10x stronger than they needed to be, then "half or less" strength would still be more than enough. So not enough facts have been shown to make this argument, instead we have meaningless buzz words like "strength of cornflakes" etc.

It's an important discussion, worth having, in my opinion. But it would be nice to do it in a more logical, objective fashion.


I certainly agree that shank strength is important. I got rid of a 55kg Rocna after finding out that it had been made out of misrepresented steel, and after reports of bent Rocna shanks.

Maybe we could have some kind of objective comparison.

[Stevens 47]

Originally Posted by Mantus Anchors

Guys I am late for a sailing race... I am eager to address this post when I arrive (hopefully victorious ........
in the mean time throw all the questions at me
Greg

Hi Greg,

I am considering purchasing a Mantus 75lb anchor. I like the removable roll bar as it allows me to deploy my sprit for my Assym. The option of using it with or without in varying bottom types seems like it could be an advantage as well.

I also like the advantage of breaking the anchor down and stowing below deck during voyaging. I pull all my chain aft to minimize weight on the bow.

I have been following another thread and Jonjo has raised a question regarding steel material used in construction. This has caused me to place my decision on hold. It is cold comfort having an anchor guarantee but losing the boat. I appreciate Dockheads comments. Simply if the shank is strong enough, great I am there. Looking for to your reply.

Hope you won your race.

Jack

[JonJo]

Shank strength

You will need to bear with me on this for a few hours.

I need to calculate the strength of various shanks, including those of the Mantus. I have also been requested to provide as much detail as possible, so I'll be collating that data. I'll try not to provide any strength data on wet cornflakes nor damp MDF.

The calculations are not that complex but are the sort of calculations any anchor maker will have done, I know Rocna did them.

Hopefully Greg, of Mantus, will have published details on the strength of his shanks, in comparison say to current Rocna shanks. In which case the data will stand out, like a sore thumb - or a bent anchor.

Warranties are great but, personally I'd rather have an anchor robustly constructed in the first place such that there will be no warranty issues - but everyone to their own. If a bit of paper with a water tight warranty is what you want, rather than an accident proof anchor - be my guest.

Jonathan

[JonJo]

For those of you who own a Mantus.

Something for you to do this weekend.

Take your Mantus down to the beach and lay it fully assembled on its side. Find a tail feather of a decent sized bird, and a 5 year old girl. have the five year old push the Mantus over with the feather (you use the feather a bit like a pointer). You will find the anchor will roll over easily. The balance is perfect.

Now take the roll bar off. Lay it on its side and have that same 5 year old girl make the anchor roll over. The feather is a waste of time. She will have to physically lift the trailing edge corner of the fluke to chest height before it will roll over (so considering she is cute - maybe you do it yourself, rather than upset her mother). Basically the anchor is stable - upside down.

If anyone wants to make a video of this it will be illuminating.

Basically if the anchor is upside down, without the roll bar, it will not self right. In fact because it is so stable upside down if you drag it (as if trying to simulate setting) it will slowly dig its shank into the sand and be dragged upside down, for ever.

It might set initially, but its a boat, its anchor will trip in a tide or wind change.

Jonathan

[noelex 77]

Looking at the Ultra website it appears the warranty is only for "manufacturing defects". Claims like this can be easily denied. It appears from this quote:

Originally Posted by JonJo

Presumably prompted by the levels of failure (which in Australia were not all honoured by 'a no questions asked return policy'

See here:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...r-12106-4.html

That the anchor is not covered for bending (unless the anchor is defective). Thanks JonJo.

I have had a reply to my email to Ultra, but still no answer to the question.

[DainyRays]

So, has anyone ever experienced an anchor failure? I haven't in my over 40 years of sailing experience. Sure, I've experienced dragging of an anchor but never mechanical failure. So, what is a warranty against mechanical failure really worth then?