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Old 23-08-2014, 22:05   #1
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Advice on Windlass Needed

My boat is in for a bottom job, and of course there are other maintenance items I will get done at the same time.

One of the enhancements I want to do is add a windlass.... hauling up 35 lb of anchor along with a 100 feet of chain is not much fun when your doing it at night, and the boat is bobbing up and down through a 10 foot cycle (fortunately I was not single handing it that time, and yes, I have rope rode attached).

To best explain what I think is a dilemma is to show a picture of the front of the boat. The lighter (white) colored area on the port side is the chain locker. As such, I believe it would be best to use a horizontal versus a vertical windlass, however, I am still unsure how I will have the rode feed into that locker. The windlass will obviously need to be set up behind the roller.

The image you see is the existing set up. I will put a new roller on the starboard anchor roller so it can used as it will not interfere as much with furler as it does now. It's a real pain with barely any room underneath currently, and I wrestle the anchor in manually. Obviously that is not an option when using the windlass.




Anyone have any thoughts on how I should plan this project?
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Old 23-08-2014, 22:44   #2
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

Most horizontal windlass es have the chain gypsy on the stbd side. Wouldn't work all that well with the port anchor locker. A vertical windlass might work better. Especially if it didn't have an auto stow set up. Is the chain locker deep enough for the chain to self stow?? If it is, you could mount whatever type of windlass off center to the port side, move the anchor windlass to that side and have a hands fee set up.
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Old 23-08-2014, 23:57   #3
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

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Originally Posted by roverhi View Post
Most horizontal windlass es have the chain gypsy on the stbd side. Wouldn't work all that well with the port anchor locker. A vertical windlass might work better. Especially if it didn't have an auto stow set up. Is the chain locker deep enough for the chain to self stow?? If it is, you could mount whatever type of windlass off center to the port side, move the anchor windlass to that side and have a hands fee set up.
Yes, the chain locker is plenty deep, so that is not an issue.

I'm not sure what you mean by "auto stow". Are not most of these windlasses not gravity tailing?

Your comment about most the chain gypsy being on the starboard side was not an issue I had considered.. thanks for pointing that out.

I wonder if I may have to put a plastic hawse pipe into the anchor/chain locker, as no matter if it is horizontal or vertical windlass, the rope/chain rode will still have to be fed over from the alignment behind the anchor rollers.

At least it appears that way to me.
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Old 24-08-2014, 00:56   #4
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

When I decided to add an electric windlass I moved from a horizontal to a vertical. I had similar issue about the off centered fall. So I added a stainless pipe on an angle in the locker that directed the chain into the locker. Works well now. I have a steel boat so I had to get my boiler maker to make some pretty substantial changes to the port locker to accept the new vertical windlass.
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Old 24-08-2014, 02:09   #5
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

I don't understand how you plan to deal with the shank. It is going to ruin the furler drum. Any chance you can shorten the foil? Seems like a vertical would work better mounted off center and they are lower so when the shank comes over the roller it would not go as high.
That is an awfully big anchor
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Old 24-08-2014, 02:16   #6
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

I'm not certain what's on the underside of the foredeck on the starboard side, but might you just either:
Make the foredeck into a solid, one piece deck, mount a vertical windlass & have the chain fall into what's currently your deck accessable chain locker?
Mount a vertical windlass aft of your current deck access chain locker, & lead the chain via a pipe into a locker you'd install on the starboard side? This option would leave you room to still use your current locker for a #2 anchor.
Make the whole foredeck solid, & split up the space below decks at your discrescion, if at all.

And of course, yes, likely you'll need a new roller for the starboard side regardless. Perhaps a nice beefy one, which extends out a bit away from the boat. There are ones, ready made, to do just that on a boat your size, which allow the anchor to both drop & be hauled back up via the windlass, sans laying a hand on the anchor.
Albeit in your case, I'd recommend moving your roller furler drum a bit "north". Which isn't really a bit deal, all things considered.

Ah, if you take & post some pics, with dimensions, from a few angles, especially overhead, of your foredeck, it'd help a LOT in us assisting you. Ditto on what's belowdecks in that area, again with dimensions

I also forgot to add, if you do a Google, & or Bing search, for anchor roller/windlass etc. setups, especially ones on your boat, I'm sure it'd help to give you some ideas in terms of what you'd like to do.

PS: How do you like your Mantus anchor? And other than it fouling the roller furling when bringing it aboard, what's your biggest complaint about it (and no, the price doesn't count ;-)

And were it me faced with this conundrum, I'd just make the whole foredeck into a monocoque, one piece, mount a vertical Maxwell, & divide up the space belowdecks for 2+ rodes. With the chain heavy one being to port, & install a beast of a roller on the starboard side. AFTER, of course, shortening my jib & RF foil about 1-1.5' in the tack region.
Optimizing things so you can have 2 hooks, is typically not a bad idea. And your boat looks like a good candidate for just such a mod, as you've got a good deal of deck width at the stem to work with.
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Old 24-08-2014, 02:21   #7
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
PS: How do you like your Mantus anchor? And other than it fouling the roller furling when bringing it aboard, what's your biggest complaint about it (and no, the price doesn't count ;-)
It's a 'Mantus'? I thought it was a Rocna.
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Old 24-08-2014, 02:54   #8
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Re: Advice on Windlass Needed

The bolts are what gave it away as being a Mantus, even without enlarging the picture up to full size.
The roll bar's bolted to the scoop, & the scoop's bolted to the shank, ergo, a Mantus. QED
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Old 24-08-2014, 03:57   #9
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Re: Advice on Windlass Needed

I have & am very satisfied with a Lighthouse horizontal windlass. I think a 1501 (boat is far away). You can have the gypsy on either side with that windlass.

By the way, does anyone know the epistemological derivation of the term "gypsy" in this context?
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Old 24-08-2014, 10:10   #10
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

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I don't understand how you plan to deal with the shank. It is going to ruin the furler drum. Any chance you can shorten the foil? Seems like a vertical would work better mounted off center and they are lower so when the shank comes over the roller it would not go as high.
That is an awfully big anchor
Yes, the furler drum is an issue, hence you see the rope I have the loop tied off to a] keep it below the drum and b] to keep it from shifting when under way.

And yes, the anchor (a 35 lb Mantus) gives me a lot of comfort and confidence when I am on the hook. Two days after I installed it I had to wait out 40-50 knot winds overnight and we were under a tornado warning. I put a danforth off the stern just in case, and although concerned, the boat didn't budge. It increased my confidence immensely in my new purchase. I'm not even sure if the danforth even engaged properly.
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Old 24-08-2014, 10:35   #11
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
I'm not certain what's on the underside of the foredeck on the starboard side, but might you just either:
Make the foredeck into a solid, one piece deck, mount a vertical windlass & have the chain fall into what's currently your deck accessable chain locker?
Under the starboard side is storage space in front of the vberth. It also allows me to get at the nav lights electrical, and the windlass when I install one.

I'm not sure what you mean by making the deck into a solid one piece... are you suggesting glassing over the existing chain/anchor locker? I'm not sure how that would help.

Quote:
Mount a vertical windlass aft of your current deck access chain locker, & lead the chain via a pipe into a locker you'd install on the starboard side? This option would leave you room to still use your current locker for a #2 anchor.
Make the whole foredeck solid, & split up the space below decks at your discrescion, if at all.
I think considering what is there now, it may make more sense to mount the vertical windlass on the starboard side, and have a hawse pipe connect into the existing locker. Less work, and I don't lose the access or storage space up front.

Quote:
And of course, yes, likely you'll need a new roller for the starboard side regardless. Perhaps a nice beefy one, which extends out a bit away from the boat. There are ones, ready made, to do just that on a boat your size, which allow the anchor to both drop & be hauled back up via the windlass, sans laying a hand on the anchor.

Albeit in your case, I'd recommend moving your roller furler drum a bit "north". Which isn't really a bit deal, all things considered.
I'll talk to my rigger about these suggestions. I'm having him do some work on the mast anyways, but it appears that yes, the roller will have to be beefed up.

Quote:
Ah, if you take & post some pics, with dimensions, from a few angles, especially overhead, of your foredeck, it'd help a LOT in us assisting you. Ditto on what's belowdecks in that area, again with dimensions
Can't, boat is 3000 miles away. I'm in the middle of the bald assed prairie right now, and will be until December.

Quote:
I also forgot to add, if you do a Google, & or Bing search, for anchor roller/windlass etc. setups, especially ones on your boat, I'm sure it'd help to give you some ideas in terms of what you'd like to do.
The problem is that it is a low production boat, a Lippincott 30. Only about a 100 made. I've contacted the owners group but it seems many still hand yank their anchor.

Quote:
PS: How do you like your Mantus anchor? And other than it fouling the roller furling when bringing it aboard, what's your biggest complaint about it (and no, the price doesn't count ;-)
I think the price is very competitive. So far I have no complaints at all (see my other post on this) other than it is tough to store and secure. It is one of the issues I need to find a solution for, but other than that, it works as well or better than advertised. I have never yet had to pull it up to reset; I drop the hook, backup, hold full power for about 45 seconds, and never have had to worry about drift. It usually grabs very quickly.

I bought mine at the Miami boatshow. Greg, the owner, packaged it up, and then helped me carry the whole package through the entire show to the pickup point for the buses. One could not ask for more personal service. He is actually an emergency doctor, and his wife is a chief engineer with NASA working on the international space station. I don't know how they find the time to do their work, and then turn around to do all the boatshows, AND run the company. They are an impressive couple with an impressive product.

Thanks for the comments, they've given me some options to consider.
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Old 24-08-2014, 11:10   #12
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Re: Advice on windlass needed

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Most horizontal windlass es have the chain gypsy on the stbd side. Wouldn't work all that well with the port anchor locker. A vertical windlass might work better. Especially if it didn't have an auto stow set up. Is the chain locker deep enough for the chain to self stow?? If it is, you could mount whatever type of windlass off center to the port side, move the anchor windlass to that side and have a hands fee set up.
first thing you need to do is raise the furler up, sailmakers tell you how to do that
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Old 24-08-2014, 11:16   #13
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Re: Advice on Windlass Needed

Some vertical windlasses have a separate chain/hawse pipe rather than being part of the base casting. You can strip the chain off of those and feed it below to a separate location.

I much prefer vertical windlass with a separate rope capstan. You can use the capstan from almost any angle to do things like pull the bow around when you run aground or pull yourself into a pier in a 'Med Tie' type of berth.

I really hate deck access chain lockers. They allow a bunch of water below so never dry out. a wonderful place to grow rust and mold. I'd glass that deck access over and put the windlass where I wanted it that gave best function of the windlass and rode.

Raise the drum off the deck by enough to clear the anchor/roller. Could be as easy as just adding short tang plates to raise the drum but would probably need shortening the foil and headstay as well. Did that with my boat in a couple of hours. Of course there may be a minor issue with your sails being too long on luff which will get a sail maker involved.
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Old 24-08-2014, 17:44   #14
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Re: Advice on Windlass Needed

By the way, does anyone know the epistemological derivation of the term "gypsy" in this context?[/QUOTE]


The story I like the best is a French navy lt. invented the "disque glyphe", a chain wheel that was called a "glyphsed wheel" when translated into english. Pronounced quickly, gypsey wheel.
Those of us who are Mericans are supposed to call them "wildcats" for some reason.
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Old 24-08-2014, 20:45   #15
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Re: Advice on Windlass Needed

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By the way, does anyone know the epistemological derivation of the term "gypsy" in this context?
Me not good on epistemology. Who is?

But etymology is different matter.

First appearance in written English: 1875 "gipsy-winch", a small winch with drum, ratchet and pawl operated by a crank

That adjective showed up in Modern English 1537 "Gipcyans", (a misnomer) label used in Europe for Romany people, noted for their metalworking skills, who migrated from India to Europe in the 15th century;

From early Modern English c1529 "Gipcy", of Egypt;

From Middle English 1388 (Wycliffe Bible translation) "Egipcians", Egyptians, the peoples of Egypt;

From Latin Ægyptiăcus, Egyptian, belonging to Egypt.

From inscription at el-Amarna "Hikuptah".

From hieroglyphs "Ha(t)-ka-ptah", the temple of the soul of Ptah (the creative god associated with the ancient city of Memphis".

Your homework task is the obvious one: elaborate on the etymology of "Ptah".
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