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Old 12-09-2014, 08:06   #31
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Re: Sail Advice Needed Urgently

Dockhead, By no means am I suggesting you change your rig, but what are your thoughts on in-boom furling (as opposed to in-mast)? It provides the convenience of furling main, the performance of full-battens, and less windage as the mast doesn't have to swallow a sail. Yes, the boom is bigger, but that weight is lower (than the mast) and shorter.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:11   #32
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Re: Sail Advice Needed Urgently

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Originally Posted by ctl411 View Post
OK so money is a issue. I wasn't sure, you are talking about buying sails that cost twice what I spent on my whole boat lol. So you still want to cut weight up high. High tech sails and line are your options. Try to find some used head sails to see if the cost of new high tech is worth the cost. You might find having the bottom cleaned more often is more cost effective. I'm assuming you have a feathering prop already. Biggest speed gain for money spent.
Money is aways an issue, isn't it? I new rig for my boat would cost $250,000, I guess. Not worth it on a boat worth less than a million dollars, even if I wanted to ditch the furling main, which I do not.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:18   #33
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Re: Sail Advice Needed Urgently

I sympathize with your dilemma about the car. Way back in 1972, I bought a 1967 LesPaul gold top for $300 dollars. Played the heck out of it and then put it away as old hat after a while. Then Mr Knopfler came along and showed guitar players a new approach to an old friend. Now when I want to use the guitar, I find its worth more than 20k....gives me pause about more wear and tear. Bought a newer cheaper one to use to entertain myself, no guilt factor. But still can't let go of the old one. Get the used blade, put a pennant on it and conduct the experiment before liquidating the Porche.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:31   #34
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Re: Sail Advice Needed Urgently

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Originally Posted by accomplice View Post
Dockhead, By no means am I suggesting you change your rig, but what are your thoughts on in-boom furling (as opposed to in-mast)? It provides the convenience of furling main, the performance of full-battens, and less windage as the mast doesn't have to swallow a sail. Yes, the boom is bigger, but that weight is lower (than the mast) and shorter.
Yes, in-boom furling is often discussed, but rarely seen. It sounds fantastic in theory, but I don't know what it's like in practice. If it fully lived up to its potential, you would think that it would be specified more often.

In-mast furling has the advantage that it is highly developed -- Selden and others have made thousands and thousands of them. They are reliable and give very little trouble. The thickness and weight of the mast are definitely disadvantages, as is the lack of roach in the sail. I think this is partially compensated for by specifying a taller rig. It does work well in practice, however, as large cruising boats around here achieve quite good performance with them. People even race with them -- a number of boats in the last Fastnet had furling mains.

So around here, furling mains are kind of just the card you are dealt -- when you go to buy a larger cruising boat you just don't have any choice, unless you are having the boat built to your specification and special order something different.

The crucial advantage of furling mains is that you can reef and unreef in infinite degrees and on any point of sail. You don't have to head up to reef or unreef -- a crucial advantage dealing with some of the weather we have around here (we sometimes sail in weather where it would be simply impossible to hold the boat's head into the wind). The ability to finely adjust the sail area, and do it effortlessly and instantly, is also a performance advantage, since you will be more likely to be sailing with the right a mount of sail up, than you would be with a conventional main. I can even unreef in a lull I know won't last more than 10 or 15 minutes -- you cant do that practically with a conventional main. And obviously, when the weather turns to s***, as it often does at this latitude, you can reduce sail in a heartbeat, without heading up -- worth its weight in gold sometimes.

Another good thing about it for sailing at these latitudes is that the shape of the furling main actually gets flatter as you reef it. This can be a big advantage in strong conditions. It means that I can delay reefing the headsail by reefing the main more and more.

On balance, it's not too bad. I have gotten used to and now probably wouldn't have anything else.

What's crucially important, however, is that your boat was designed from the beginning for it -- there has to be enough ballast to compensate for the weight aloft, or it screws up your stability, and the rig should be taller to increase the aspect ratio to claw back some sail area and some of the efficiency lost from the lack of a roach.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:45   #35
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Re: Sail Advice Needed Urgently

Dockhead, I've been more than happy with our leisurefurl (inboom). Once one gets the hang of it (keep luff tension while reefing), it works well and easily. I'm not sure why the systems are not used more. We are the only one in our summer home port (Dutch Harbor, RI) with it, but I've run into many others with it and the comments I've had are consistently positive.

I agree with you that furling mains on larger (50+) cruising boats are the way to go. I don't understand, though, why so many go for the in-mast systems.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:33   #36
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Re: Sail Advice Needed Urgently

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. . . Install a fuel polishing system, a hookah dive system and buy my Ferrari 308 with the many thousands saved.
LOL!

I always loved the 308, particularly the non-"i" with the Weber carbs (it took Ferrari a long time to figure out fuel injection). I almost bought a 456 some years ago, but then thought better of it (and glad I did).

But I also always preferred the early 911S. I don't know if you've ever driven one, but it's a hell of a car. Just the sound of it . . . The way you can make it dance on a windy road . . .

I am astonished at the prices -- what happened? For years you could buy really good ones for $20k or less; while 308's were $40k -- $50k. Now well restored ones are over $200k; and there was one sale at auction for over $300k. Not the RS, but the normal 911S.

So yes, I guess I could buy my sails and so forth and buy a 308 with what's left over (they are still $40k -- $50k as far as I can tell), but frankly the car-crazy phase of my life is over now, and I'd resent the expenditure of perfectly good money on something other than sails and rigging and so forth .
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