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Old 22-01-2011, 23:56   #16
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Definitely Jiffy Reefing but I spoke with may sail maker about Stack type pack and dicided to hold off on that (my "budget" is dwindling quickly). Does it really make a big difference?
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Old 23-01-2011, 01:11   #17
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G'day again, mate. Harken Batt car system here. Has worked flawlessly over our ownership of the boat. You didn't ask, but if your not considering going with a loose footed main, I would highly recommend it. I have had both and very satisfied on going the loose footed route. Again, no binding of the slugs in the boom and you get a little fuller main off the wind. All the best. Cheers.
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Old 23-01-2011, 03:21   #18
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Definitely Jiffy Reefing but I spoke with may sail maker about Stack type pack and dicided to hold off on that (my "budget" is dwindling quickly). Does it really make a big difference?
It's really easy to sit and spend your money from here.

The Stack Pak is basically lazy jacks that incorporate a sail cover that you don't have to take off and put back on. So it's not really sail handling but sail containment. You could get lazy jacks now and maybe later make them a part of your stack pack. Or hold off on the Lazy Jack for now as well. They just keep the sail on top of the boom when the sail is not deployed..

Does it make a diff? It's convienient, but does not contribute to sail handling other than that.
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Old 23-01-2011, 08:24   #19
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G'day again, mate. Harken Batt car system here. Has worked flawlessly over our ownership of the boat. You didn't ask, but if your not considering going with a loose footed main, I would highly recommend it. I have had both and very satisfied on going the loose footed route. Again, no binding of the slugs in the boom and you get a little fuller main off the wind. All the best. Cheers.
Yes, we are going with a loose foot. Did you install your track and if so, do you recall why you went with that product over others?

Thanks for your comments,

Andrew
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Old 23-01-2011, 08:41   #20
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It's really easy to sit and spend your money from here.

Does it make a diff? It's convienient, but does not contribute to sail handling other than that.
Hey, it is really easy to spend my money here too. That's the problem...

The quote I got for a Stack Pack was twice that for a sail cover so at first I balked. But now I think maybe I should take the hit instead of needing buy it a second time in a few years. Does the cover help contain the sail before it is secured (i.e. just after it is dropped) or is that mainly achieved with the lazy jacks?

One other technology that I have become aware of is Dutchman Reefing, which has been discussed on this site. There is also a pro and con list here: Dutchman vs. Lazy Jacks Pros and Cons - SailNet Community

So many decisions. However, I have all but decided to go with a mast track (providing the cost is not prohibitive).

Thanks for your comments,

Andrew
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Old 23-01-2011, 15:50   #21
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G'day, mate. My Harken system came with the boat when we bought it. I recently removed the mast and completely stripped the mast to repaint it, including removing and reinstalling the Harken system. Did all this work myself. It's really a pretty simple installation and no special tools are required. Cheers.
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Old 23-01-2011, 19:08   #22
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Thanks for the info. Best of luck on the sale of your boat. I sure with the work you described she will look real fine.

Andrew
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Old 23-01-2011, 19:38   #23
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The quote I got for a Stack Pack was twice that for a sail cover so at first I balked. But now I think maybe I should take the hit instead of needing buy it a second time in a few years. Does the cover help contain the sail before it is secured (i.e. just after it is dropped) or is that mainly achieved with the lazy jacks?

Suggest you call a local canvas shop and see what they want to make it for you. There's a chance it will be.. competitive, and you get to design in details you want (assuming you know enough to know what those details might be. Ask your sailmaker for direction there if you're talking to him face to face).

As to your question re containment. Basically yes. the Lazy Jacks don't need to attach to the boom. They attach to the sail cover, so you can think of them as an extension of the Lazy Jacks.

Before you get too far, I'd do some dock walking and look at different configurations. I can see you winding up with something you're not at all happy with if you don't see some systems up close and personal.
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Old 23-01-2011, 19:51   #24
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I don't like stack packs for aesthetic reasons. Think boats look really ugly with that sailcover hanging around the boom all the time. Not that big a deal to drop the main in the lazy jacks and fit the sail cover at the dock.

You can make your own lazy jacks with four brass rings, two small cheek blocks, 3 small padeyes, a couple of plastic cleats and a few hundred feet of 1/4" line for around a $100.
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Old 24-01-2011, 06:48   #25
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Suggest you call a local canvas shop and see what they want to make it for you. There's a chance it will be.. competitive...

...Before you get too far, I'd do some dock walking and look at different configurations. I can see you winding up with something you're not at all happy with if you don't see some systems up close and personal.
Good idea about contacting a canvas shop. As for walking the docks that will be difficult now as it is -20C outside and the boats are asleep in their beds but I will do a virtual walk on the internet. Thanks for the suggestions.

Andrew
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Old 24-01-2011, 06:55   #26
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I don't like stack packs for aesthetic reasons. Think boats look really ugly with that sailcover hanging around the boom all the time. Not that big a deal to drop the main in the lazy jacks and fit the sail cover at the dock.

You can make your own lazy jacks with four brass rings, two small cheek blocks, 3 small padeyes, a couple of plastic cleats and a few hundred feet of 1/4" line for around a $100.
One of my neighbours has them, and I didn't find it ugly but it seemed to be a bit unseamanship-like: a floppy bag hanging off the boom. But I understand that they should have battens to keep them properly shape, which my neighbour didn't have.

My local rigging shop sells them for $150 although I don't know what I am getting for that price. I will keep your suggestion in mind when it comes time to order.

Thanks,

Andrew
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Old 24-01-2011, 12:26   #27
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Good idea about contacting a canvas shop. As for walking the docks that will be difficult now as it is -20C outside and the boats are asleep in their beds but I will do a virtual walk on the internet. Thanks for the suggestions.

Andrew
Sounds like you're moving right along. OK, virtual dock walk. I'd use that to develope some questions for your sailmaker. He should have a lot of good input for you. I'd buddy up to that guy. Details like where to place the lazy jacks, mast or spreaders (you want them spread out, but no too far out), yes on the battens, ect.

I'd have to agree with Roverhi that many of them look downright bad. So ask your canvas shop to show you what he's done on other boats if at all possible. Some canvas shops barely deserve to be called canvas shops.

Stack Packs can be set up so many different ways. Again, Roverhi has a good point. "that sail cover hanging around the boom" can be bad. It can also be overcome. Mine can be rolled up tight against the boom when the main is up. Many look bad sitting at the dock too. But some look good. Or Roverhi might say they look "less bad"

OK, OK. I have an advantage. I had lot's of bad example to look at. You don't. My sailmaker is a tight friend. My canvas guy is a tight friend. Even with that, I had to show my canvas shop buddy something he did on another boat that... well... looked bad.

In the end, I had a nice tight bag of sail sitting on top of my boom. At first it was a little too tight and I kicked myself. I mean, I designed it. Then I got used to using it and how to do things with it a little differently. You know, the little details that make all the differences.
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Old 24-01-2011, 12:41   #28
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Sounds like you're moving right along. OK, virtual dock walk. I'd use that to develope some questions for your sailmaker. He should have a lot of good input for you. I'd buddy up to that guy. Details like where to place the lazy jacks, mast or spreaders (you want them spread out, but no too far out), yes on the battens, etc. ...
Luckily my boat has neither lazy jacks nor reef-lines so I am at liberty to put them where is deemed optimal.

However, after looking at the boats on the virtual dock, I am not sure if I like that solution. One of the first things I thought of was how the Stack Pack could interfere with getting access to the sail, for example, when reefing.

How would one tie down a reefed sail with this bag in the way? Anyway, now I am thinking of the Dutchman solution which will ascetically look better and may have better functionality. I understand that option is tricky to set up but it looks promising (as long as the cost isn't too much).

Given all these questions, I am glad I found an affordable local sail-maker instead of getting the sail made overseas.

Thanks again for your comments,

Andrew
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Old 24-01-2011, 13:43   #29
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Luckily my boat has neither lazy jacks nor reef-lines so I am at liberty to put them where is deemed optimal.

However, after looking at the boats on the virtual dock, I am not sure if I like that solution. One of the first things I thought of was how the Stack Pack could interfere with getting access to the sail, for example, when reefing.

How would one tie down a reefed sail with this bag in the way?
Andrew
Methinks you've gotten ahead of yourself. You need to understand how jiffy reefing works, and your questions say that you're not there yet.

I have a full batten, loose footed main with 2 point jiffy reefing. Stack Pack "interfere" is not a question. But again, the stack pack is set up that way. BIG part of that is stowable Lazy Jacks. That's how the whole "floppy bag" can be rolled up tight against the boom.

It's pretty common to sail with the Lazy Jacks deployed (and thus the stack pak not stowed), so I think your questions may be coimg from seeing pics of that.

Jiffy reefing is about doing all the things you're concerend about from the cockpit.

Again, talk to your sailmaker.
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Old 24-01-2011, 14:05   #30
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Ya, maybe it is the pictures I have seen. Most seem to have the bag resting against the raised sail or hanging off the boom (like a soft version of the Tarten boom).

The confusion about "tying done" the reefed sail was based on my previous boat, which had to two lines that lead to the mast (although not to the cockpit). I would still loosely secure the flaked portion of the sail against the boom to keep it from flopping around.

Perhaps I have a misunderstanding of what constitutes Jiffy Reefing but I thought it was simply the ability to reef the main by pulling a line that is lead forward to the mast.

The problem with my sail maker is that when I can get hold of him he is GREAT but making that first contact is difficult... :-(



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