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Old 16-01-2017, 10:11   #1
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How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Hi:

I have 4 sail kits from Sailrite that need assembly. They are for a Sandpiper 565, so pretty much dingy sized. However, my main boat these days is a Tanzer 22, and I want the setup to be viable for sails on this boat too. I also intend to do canvas projects like bimini tops etc.

The largest foot for #1 Genoa on the Tanzer would be about 15 or 16 feet. If I ever find myself doing something larger, I would think I would find some way to borrow a gymnasium floor or similar to do the final assembly.

I have two possible locations to set up.

I could work in the upper area of my workshop where I could clear a run of about 23 feet by 6 feet. I could consider setting the machine into the floor. This idea would require seriously heating a second building, which I am not keen to do.

The second choice, and I think the better one, is to set up in the basement where the footprint I can access is something like 32 feet by 10 feet (total room width is 14 feet). The main feature of this room is a 4x8 feet (nominal) pool table at one end. The problem here is it will not be (reasonably?) possible to work on the floor (about 4 foot wide channels around the pool table), so some form of table setup that starts with the pool table will be necessary. Plus frankly at my age, I'd rather not find myself working on the floor. One short end of the pool table is at the approximate centre of the long room dimension, thus giving 16 feet clear to both sides of the machine.

The machine is a LSZ-1 with it's matching table, though I think that the table will not be part of the setup. I also have three 30 inch by 8 feet portable tables that can be set up as needed.

A key issue is that the pool table is about 6 inches higher than both the sewing table and the portable tables, so usage of any of these items will require a hack to raise the working surfaces. Not impossible, but possibly clumsy. (One interesting idea I saw is using rigid foam insulation as a sewing table extension surface as there is no load to speak of for most of the surface.)

I envision setting up shop for a couple months each winter to do repairs and any new work. The whole setup would then likely be carried over to the barn for off season storage, some 400 feet away from the house.

My first idea for best functionality, at the cost of more stuff to haul about is to set up three 4x8 foot pieces of plywood on the pool table to get a 12 feet long by 8 feet wide surface on top of the pool table. One end of the "table" would over hang the pool table about 20 inches, and into this space I would build the suitable drop into which to set the sewing machine. To my left and behind I could set up either 2 or 3 of my portable tables and call that the surface (suitable adjusted for height as required), or use the tables to support a number of sheets of plywood or insulation to provide a larger surface to the left and behind.

At this point I wonder of the necessity to have 8 feet of table width made from 3 sheets of plywood. I think the final assemble of sails will involve both sides rolled into a tube, and so likely a table width of about 4 feet by 8 or 12 feet length will be quite comfortable. The downside here I think is that the larger table surface will be very handy to lay out pieces, baste etc., stuff that I might otherwise find myself on the floor doing.

My inclination would be to use 1/4 inch plywood and reinforce with ribs and possibly legs around the sewing machine and any heavy duty work region as opposed to using 3/4 plywood which would likely be stiff enough without much more structure, but which would be bloody heavy to cart to the barn.

Any advice on my scheme most graciously accepted.

Boulter
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Old 16-01-2017, 10:53   #2
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

In order to keep your working surfaces stiff, light weight, & cheap, you can glue doorskins onto either side of cheap foam. Or glass the foam on one side, & put doorskins on the other. That way you retain the ability to have a surface that you can put sailmaker's push pins into it, while the panels are both lighter, & stiffer than 3/4" plywood.

The other thing which springs to mind is that if you use elevated working surfaces, then you probably can't walk, crawl, or sit on top of them in order to do work on a part of the sail that you can't reach from the edges. Just as one can't reach the center of a billiards table. And a perk of working on surfaces that are all on one level, & one piece, is that you can stretch a sail out on them, full sized. Including stretching luff or foot out full length.
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Old 16-01-2017, 11:10   #3
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
I'm having a little trouble visualizing all of the proposed/possible setups. But in order to keep your working surfaces stiff, light weight, & cheap, you can glue doorskins onto either side of cheap foam. Or glass the foam on one side, & put doorskins on the other. That way you retain the ability to have a surface that you can put sailmaker's push pins into it, while the panels are both lighter, & stiffer than 3/4" plywood.
Hi:

Thanks for the response and sorry you did not find it clear. I can't fault you for that LOL.

To a pretty good approximation, my table can be 24 feet long by 12 feet wide with me and the machine popping up in the middle, or 16 to 24 feet long by 4 feet wide, ie just wide enough to have 2 rolled up sail segments travel past each side of the needle. The big question really is how much extra utility is gained by having a vastly wider and longer working surface given that I'll have to buy, assemble and transport all this?

Yes, putting a skin on foam might be a possibility.

Regards,

Boulter
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Old 16-01-2017, 13:56   #4
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

I'd love to build new sails for my Columbia 36, but can't come up with a place big enough to do it. Largest would be 40' x 24', and I have a really small house. And working on the ground is no fun at all. The Sailrite videos show people doing that, but they must be a whole lot more flexible than I am. And my knees are already shot. Sound's like your set up with the pool table will work, I just wish I had that much room.
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Old 16-01-2017, 14:34   #5
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Ideally you want to have your machine level with the floor. That's impractical for most.

We've had success with 2 people. 1 to sew and 1 to feed. The main constraint is the need to stop and start frequently.

You also need a work surface that won't catch or grab the material. We used the sticky plastic for moving on a standard kitchen table in the marina meeting room. We also joined tables to give a big enough surface.

You need a powerful machine and a good walking foot.
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Old 16-01-2017, 14:52   #6
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

A pro loft would be a raised floor of scaffolding or tables with the operator in a pit in the middle, and the floor would be strong enough to walk on. Examples can be seen in the Sailrite videos. Where to do the work is something they don't mention in the advertising.
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Old 17-01-2017, 09:19   #7
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

You can lay out your sailcloth on the floor and use basting tap and staples to get the seams where you want them, then transfer the job to a table top. I also mark the seam locations with a blue washable marker, so that if the basting tape lets go in places, I can still get the seam back togehter in the right place.
I have an industrial Pfaff machine, with a walking needle but not a walking foot, which is not ideal, but it's what I've got and it can punch through multiple layers of heavy dacron. I use folding tables from Home Depot or Lowes to form an island around the machine table, to get the sailcloth up to machine level. I've found the most important thing with these improvised arrangements is to make sure that the machine is not having to lift the cloth- that I'm constantly doing the heavy lifting to get the cloth up to and onto the island, so that the machine just has to move cloth along, under the needle.
I hope this helps and wish you good luck

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PS you will need a heavy duty stitch ripper, a super sharp knife (I use a snap blade) and if your eyes are like mine, a needle threader
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Old 17-01-2017, 09:38   #8
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Here is a video of a young couple sewing a Sailrite sail in the garage. Interesting to see how they make it work.

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Old 17-01-2017, 10:18   #9
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Ugh! Why doesn't the video show up when I use the Link?
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Old 17-01-2017, 11:47   #10
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL View Post
You can lay out your sailcloth on the floor and use basting tap and staples to get the seams where you want them, then transfer the job to a table top. I also mark the seam locations with a blue washable marker, so that if the basting tape lets go in places, I can still get the seam back togehter in the right place.
I have an industrial Pfaff machine, with a walking needle but not a walking foot, which is not ideal, but it's what I've got and it can punch through multiple layers of heavy dacron. I use folding tables from Home Depot or Lowes to form an island around the machine table, to get the sailcloth up to machine level. I've found the most important thing with these improvised arrangements is to make sure that the machine is not having to lift the cloth- that I'm constantly doing the heavy lifting to get the cloth up to and onto the island, so that the machine just has to move cloth along, under the needle.
I hope this helps and wish you good luck

John Mardall
Vetus Maxwell Group

PS you will need a heavy duty stitch ripper, a super sharp knife (I use a snap blade) and if your eyes are like mine, a needle threader
Hi, John, and the OP,

I think this is great advice! Having the walking foot helps move the fabric through, way more than my old Pfaff did. But I still find that it's best to get the fabric to the level of the machine, in any event.

It is always a problem to find somewhere with enough room to loft the sail. We do not make our own sails, now, but Jim made a storm jib and a spinnaker some years back.

Fwiw, the OP may want to have someone else working with him to help feed the fabric through the machine. Jim helps me this way, with large projects, although, he did it all himself back when.

Ann
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Old 17-01-2017, 14:02   #11
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Hi:

Thanks for the additional comments.

Given that I do not have any 4x8 plywood in stock, and given that it would be a PITA to get any here in winter, I am going to hack together a setup with what I have.

What I have is 5x5 Baltic birch plywood, so I will place two sheets on the pool table to give a 5 x 10 outfeed table, and general work surface for basting etc. I don't think I will do anything more than just place them as I don't want to destroy $100 stock for what might be a temporary setup in the fullness of time.

Then I will make booster platforms to boost the height of the three fold out tables and the sewing table to the height of the plywood on the pool table. These will have adjustable feet by way of 3/8 inch hex head cap screws running into those threaded pieces one hammers into a hole in wood.

I will likely place the sewing table aligned flush with the corner of the first sheet of plywood, then place two folding tables in a 4x16 array to the immediate left of the plywood and sewing table. Finally I will try the third table behind me and adjacent to the 4x16 table array such that a rolled up segment of sail can be supported from behind as it moves under the machine arm, yet I have a hole in which to sit at the machine.

Probably clear as mud. I'll report back with photographs when I give it a go.

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Old 20-01-2017, 00:48   #12
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Yeah, Boulter,

Don't know if you're right or left handed, but if it's right, more supporting space on the left is good. You slide over, but the throat is small, and you do the best you can......

Ann
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Old 20-01-2017, 18:33   #13
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

I have a 6'6"x 4' sheet of 1/2 inch plywood that I split in half, I made two boards with threaded inserts that fasten them together. disassembled, they stow under the sette' in the main saloon. I've made two dodgers, a few bimini's, patched a couple Genoa's and a main and put sacrificial on two other Genoa's . all the sails came off 37 to 42 ft boats.

It sounds like you have a football field in comparison. With the sail kits all the panels are precut so aligning up the seams will be a piece of cake a short segment at a time. just pay attention to how the fabric goes through the machine, when going at it in short segments, one layer can slide along causing the other to bunch slightly, without noticing it till you've gotten to the end of the run. I measure down both edges and mark it every couple feet, then I stretch out a 4 or 5 foot section, align it bast it and stitch it, then do it again. it takes longer, but I can do it any where i'm at and don't have the rent of a big place that will make me have to work more often. I try to keep things to 20% work &80 % play....well some of that 80 is sleep and chores ;-)

good luck on your project and remember to KEEP IT SIMPLE.
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Old 20-01-2017, 18:48   #14
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

Hi:

Got the machine table and two portable tables set to the height of the plywood on the pool table and started the storm job which is a princely 50 SF or so. I need to refine the setup bit, but it worked well enough that I am onto the detailing work without making the catastrophic blunder yet.

I'll report back in a few days with pictures.

Boulter
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Old 20-01-2017, 20:42   #15
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Re: How to set up room for (mostly) sewing sails

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Originally Posted by Boulter View Post
Hi:

Got the machine table and two portable tables set to the height of the plywood on the pool table and started the storm job which is a princely 50 SF or so. I need to refine the setup bit, but it worked well enough that I am onto the detailing work without making the catastrophic blunder yet.

I'll report back in a few days with pictures.

Boulter
Well done! A good idea to start on the smallest sail, work your way up the size ladder. Shouldn't have too much trouble with sails for a 22 footer, but I've been chicken to even think about sails for any of our recent boats.

A photo of one flying would be a treat for us...

Jim
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