asymetrical spinnaker

[seadog2]

Hello, I am looking for a asymmetrical spinnaker for my 28' Person. Having never had one before what is the avg cost of it. Also How would one deploy and recover if one was singlehanded as I might be on a portion or two on my way to the Caribbean. I realize that I wouldn't be able to fly it much by myself but it would be nice to fly it when the wind is not cooperating. Any ideas? Rob

[Bash]

welcome to the forum.

you need to go onto the foredeck to set a chute, which means you'll need an autopilot to do this singlehanded.

most of us will swear that the best way to handle a chute on a short-handed vessel is to use a sock. that way, the chute is contained in its sock during the hoist.

first step is to set a course downwind so that the chute will be in the wind shadow of the main. Don't do this DDW, but rather on a course between 165 and 170 degrees apparent. once you've set the tack, you hoist the spinnaker, still in its sock, and then get the sheet rigged as close as you can guess to the appropriate trim. Now hoist the sock so that the spinnaker runs free.

If you've done this right, the chute will not yet fill. Now you go back to the helm and slowly come up to the point where the chute is in the air. On most boats, this will be somewhere around 155 degrees apparent wind. Once the chute fills, trim the sheet.

To put the chute away, one again you would use the main's shadow to collapse it. Then, quickly, you'd go forward and pull the sock down over the sail. Once that's done, it's a fairly easy matter to lower the halyard and bag the sail.

This operation is far easier (and safer) with two crew than with one. If you're singlehanded, don't even think about working the foredeck without first tethering in to jacklines. If you don't have jacklines, two tethers and a harnass, don't even think about buying a spinnaker.

[rebel heart]

They tend to not last long on the used market, but you can put a call into Minnies. I got a drifter from them for $300 that doesn't look like it's ever been flown. And not to steer you away from an asym, but google around with drifters if you've never used one before. Capable downwind sails that also work quite well in light airs on a reach.

MINNEY'S YACHT SURPLUS - WE MAKE BOATING AFFORDABLE

[RDW]

I am new and inexperienced so I have off the wall questions. If I was a devoted singlehander and wanted to fly an asymetrical, I would tempted to get a longer line on my sock to be able to lead it back to the cockpit to be able to raise the sock from the cockpit. I would think you could use two snatch blocks attached foreward. The extra lenght of line would not be that much cost. So the big question is am I crazy or crazy like a fox?
rdw

[rebel heart]

Originally Posted by RDW

I am new and inexperienced so I have off the wall questions. If I was a devoted singlehander and wanted to fly an asymetrical, I would tempted to get a longer line on my sock to be able to lead it back to the cockpit to be able to raise the sock from the cockpit. I would think you could use two snatch blocks attached foreward. The extra lenght of line would not be that much cost. So the big question is am I crazy or crazy like a fox?
rdw

You can rig nearly anything you like but eventually you'll need to go up forward for some reason or another. If you're singlehanding you will absolutely have some form of self steering system in place so the rudder will be doing it's thing without you there. You can raise the main to blanket the asym and depower it, raise the main and come in on a reach and blanket, or something like that.

I had a previous boat that had nearly every line run into the cockpit. It worked okay; different strokes. Flush deck (or nearly flush deck) boats work nice for running lines aft. The more bumps and lumps on your deck and the longer the boat the more difficult/expensive/goofy it gets to try that.

[barnakiel]

Forget it. Use a gennaker instead.

b.

[blgklr]

Hope not hijacking, but also interested in a gennekar particulary adding a bowsprit and furling gennekar. Sail at 160 or 200 instead of DDW. The OP will be interested in comments also is what I'm hoping. This is for ease while cruiseing not racing with a crew. Thanx.

[capngeo]

Seadog...... I have an asymmetrical for my CAL 28. It is in as NEW condition and has only been aloft once! I don't even bother to carry it anymore on the boat, as I get fairly decent downwind performance wing and wing with a 150% Genoa...

It is in storage in Key West (I'm in Sarasota for a few weeks) If you are interested, I can get the dimensions next time there.

[TEE]

I bought an asymmetrical spinaker for my Shannon 43. I cost me an arm and a leg. It takes up a huge amount of space, so it usually gets delegated to being pounded in a compressed state in the bottom of the port cockpit locker. It takes about an hour to drag it out, set up the head and the tack and run the sheets outside to blocks at the stern and forward, and then make sure nothing will be fouled during the hoist. I set the working sheet before the hoist, hoist, and then raise the snuffer. It is a relatively huge sail that is easy to overpower, and which has the ability to do some serious personal injury if something goes afoul. If I was single handing, I wouldn't even try to use it; rather, I would use my 130 jib which is on an extrusion with the mast mounted pole. Picture yourself at the bow when a gust hits this huge sail, the boat decides to lay over on its side, and the autopilot forgets its supposed to the steering the boat. You might be then laying against the lifelines only some what bruised and bloodied -- if you are lucky -- with the snuffer control lines in your hand, trying to still stay on the boat and still trying to get the beast under control while thinking, "Jeez, why did I put that dang thang up in the first place. Been there, done that.

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by blgklr

(...) Sail at 160 or 200 instead of DDW. (...)

High time to gybe? ;-)

b.

I am not sure what sort of 160 you are talking about.

To drive so low it will take skill, concentration and preferably a bowsprit that can be hauled to windward. None of which is found in excess onboard cruising boats.

We will sail apparent 130-150. The gain in speed allows us to arrive at the WP just as soon as if sailing DDW.

When light, we will sail 130, keep full main trimmed in.

When puffy, we will sail 150, keep reefed main trimmed in.

There must be other ways to do it well to, but in case of a small rolly doubleneder with gennaker on a fixed bowsprit this method works fine.

No gennaker roller here - we drop behind the main which is very easy - again - in a small boat.

b.

[b-rad]

I have one for sale here http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ock-55835.html
Dont know your boats measurements but it might work.

[saildestiny]

Large, light air, head sails are very helpful in light air. I sail my Bristol 45.5 with a North Genaker often and it is very useful. Having said that there are some rules I follow which may be helpful:
1. Since just my wife and I cruise full time, internationally, on a big boat, I bought a used (but never flown) J42 Genaker which is technically undersized but easier to handle than a sail fully sized for my Bristol.
2. I always watch the wind very carefully and never fly it in greater than 12 knots, or when the wind is forecast to increase later in the day.
3. I never fly it close to shore, or where I could not "come up" to keep the wind well abaft of abeam. I follow the set and take down process well described above by BASH and check everything twice before I hoist. I also test that the halyard will come down before I pull the sock off.
4. I never fly it in any significant seaway or when there could be changes in current or wave direction.
5. I never fly it when my wife doesn’t want me to!
Although my Bristol sails well "wing on wing" in a moderate breeze, in the 5 to 10 knot range the Genaker adds a .5 to a knot or so to my boat speed, and it's pretty, and fun to fly.

[cabo_sailor]

The west coast of florida has either more wind than I'd like or too little. Oh there are some days that are just perfect and everyone is happy. Since I tend to stay at the dock or on the hook when it is blowing 20 knots or more, I needed something to help conserve diesel fuel. Yes, I know 20 knots is nothing, particularly for my boat, but the problem in western florida is that the water is so dang shallow that even seas of 5 ft can have you bouncing off the bottom. I mean really, I draw 5 ft and it takes about 2 hours to get beyond water that is only 8-12 ft deep. Give me a few hours and I can get out to 20 or even 25 ft of water.

In any event, I have an asymmetrical from North Sails and I use it with the ATN Tacker to allow me to sail a bit closer to the wind. Expensive, yep! It's two stage construction, 1.5 oz on the outer panels and 1 oz on the inner panels. On the other hand, I've been out when all regular sail was giving me 2 knots, raised the chute and was doing about 6. With a sock it is not terribly difficult to raise or lower and that's what I do when it's necessary to gybe. That said, I would only use it if I were going to be out for a while on that tack. If my destination were only an hour or two away, I'd use the iron genny and be done. But for a longer trip, it will definitely be up. It stores, complete with sock in a bag not much bigger than a military duffel bag. One caveat, some of the older designs tend to have a problem if using autopilot. You can get some uncomfortable yaw. The newer designs have pretty much eliminated this problem.

Basically, you fly it as a big genoa. The first time, I'm embarrassed to say, I lost track of the sheets and wrapped one around the prop. I knew there was a reason I had spurs!! Finally, if the air is too light and variable it doesn't do much good either. It keeps trying to gybe itself and makes a racket. Then all comes down and the engine comes on.

My two cents,
Rich

Edit: I would only use it in 10 kt of wind or less. Anything above that and my regular sails would do just fine. That removes some of the fear factor for having all that cloth out there. I'm not terribly experienced in using it but it generally takes about 20 min to set up and make sure the lines are led right and just a few minutes to douse and get on deck using the sock.

[Bash]

Originally Posted by TEE

Picture yourself at the bow when a gust hits this huge sail, the boat decides to lay over on its side, and the autopilot forgets its supposed to the steering the boat. You might be then laying against the lifelines only some what bruised and bloodied -- if you are lucky -- with the snuffer control lines in your hand, trying to still stay on the boat and still trying to get the beast under control while thinking, "Jeez, why did I put that dang thang up in the first place. Been there, done that.

There is a clear problem with the account described above. Sailors who are still prone to being surprised by the wind are not yet ready to fly a spinnaker short-handed.

There are no exceptions to this rule: the most experienced sailors will virtually never be surprised by a gust. It just doesn't happen. Lovers anticipate moods, fashion designers anticipate trends, mechanics anticipate breakdowns, politicians anticipate shifting priorities, business executive anticipate emerging markets, and sailors anticipate the wind.

Being able to fly a spinnaker is only 5% about having the skills to rig, hoist, and douse a spinnaker. The other 95% of the skill is learning to use the wind rather than fight it. And that means understanding what the wind is planning to do next.

[JJB]

Originally Posted by Bash

Being able to fly a spinnaker is only 5% about having the skills to rig, hoist, and douse a spinnaker. The other 95% of the skill is learning to use the wind rather than fight it. And that means understanding what the wind is planning to do next.

Too true.