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Old 08-09-2011, 20:41   #16
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

thinking of freezing the seacock, at Autozone, they sell freeze off in a spray can. It makes whatever you spray it on extremely cold.

What design style of seacock is this?

A lot of older bronze with rubber seacocks are likely been tossed when easily fixed.
I have two of those. You unscrew the side plate and the rubber cylinder comes out. That kind gets stiff due to corosion of the inner bronze where the rubber sits. Scrape the inner bronze cylinder clean with a razor blade or use a rotary wire brush and it works fine again. Both of those bronze seacocks are over 40 years old.

Some of the seacocks act as the nut. If you unscrew it be careful. The outer mushroom insert is going to be loose or the mushroom might have been screwed into the hull using holes drilled in the flange. I could only get mine off the boat by grinding the outer mushroom end completely off as the threads were stuck and I did not want to have a torch inside the boat.
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:22   #17
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

I see only two problems with the otherwise logical "locked door" idea. First, it requires that the LEO be reasonably intelligent rather than a dogmatic crusader looking to justify the riding around in the county's hot speedboat. Secondly, any LEO encountering a "locked door" onboard is going to get seriously paranoid about what illegal substances you are hiding behind that door. They are going to want it immediately opened and then do a thorough investigation hoping to find something to nail you for - which they won't find so they will nail you for not "locking" or "wire-tying" the through-hull closed now that the door is no longer locked.
- - Since the OP stated the through-hull is not operable, that cannot be done, so the only solution to "make the head legal" is to remove the toilet and plug the hose. No toilet = no need to "lock/wire-tie" the through-hull.
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Old 09-09-2011, 09:32   #18
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Actually, Peg, that section does NOT list "all the acceptable means". Rather important difference is that it enumerates SOME ACCEPTABLE MEANS.

It says "Acceptable methods of securing the device include" so those methods are removed from discussion and considered secure. Perching a boa constrictor on the toilet, or keeping a hungry tiger or Loretta Bobbet in the head compartment, might be considered debateable means of securing the head and left to the discretion of the officer in charge.

The listed means, are simply removed from the discretion of the boarding party.

He can't wire tie his seacock until it is fixed. That's why I suggest simply wire tying the toilet lid. Wire tie, approved. Physical access to water, tied off. Secure is secure.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:03   #19
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

1. Remove handle from seacock
2. Swear it is in closed position.
3. Put tape over toilet with "Not working" written on it.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:55   #20
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

"2. Swear it is in closed position."
Don, that would probably be a felony offense, lying to an enforcement officer. Not a good gamble since a watercop who's been around might still recognize the stump is in the open position. And if he really wants to write one...That's a good one.
I think the ticket for an open seacock would be cheaper.
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Old 09-09-2011, 10:56   #21
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Go with post #3, replace it. I did it with mine, very little water get in the boat if you put the new one fast. Have a wood plug ready in case the treads need to be cleaned.
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Old 09-09-2011, 18:59   #22
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

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Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
. . . That's why I suggest simply wire tying the toilet lid. Wire tie, approved. Physical access to water, tied off. Secure is secure.

Just curious as I might want to use the technique - how to you "wire tie" a plastic/composite toilet seat and lid to a porcelain toilet bowl? Do you have to drill a hole or holes in the porcelain?
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Old 09-09-2011, 19:19   #23
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Baling wire loop around the bottom, where it is narrow, crossed over and cross-tied over the lid. Ever see a mesh bag full of grapefruit? Same same, you take the string/wire up and down and tie it off in a few places, and the grapefruit can't get out. Or, the lid can't be lifted.

Can't lift the lid? Toilet's secure.
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Old 09-09-2011, 19:33   #24
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by osirissail View Post
I see only two problems with the otherwise logical "locked door" idea. First, it requires that the LEO be reasonably intelligent rather than a dogmatic crusader looking to justify the riding around in the county's hot speedboat. Secondly, any LEO encountering a "locked door" onboard is going to get seriously paranoid about what illegal substances you are hiding behind that door. They are going to want it immediately opened and then do a thorough investigation hoping to find something to nail you for - which they won't find so they will nail you for not "locking" or "wire-tying" the through-hull closed now that the door is no longer locked.
- - Since the OP stated the through-hull is not operable, that cannot be done, so the only solution to "make the head legal" is to remove the toilet and plug the hose. No toilet = no need to "lock/wire-tie" the through-hull.
I second this.

I think there is a notable risk that for many inspectors a closed a locked door may not suffice if the the head is physically plumbed to an open seacock and such plumbing is not physically secured shut.

I think other, relatively simply alternatives that have been mentioned previously pose less risk of a citation.

To me, it's not clear the head even needs to be removed. My interpretation is that if the plumbing is physically removed so it physically can not be pumped overboard, you should be okay.

Just my interpretation...
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Old 09-09-2011, 20:57   #25
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

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. . . To me, it's not clear the head even needs to be removed. My interpretation is that if the plumbing is physically removed so it physically can not be pumped overboard, you should be okay. . . .
There you go - thinking logically and/or intelligently. You have to think on the level of the LEO who needs to justify his time and expense stopping and boarding you for a "potty check."
- - The logic behind the "Nature's Head" and "Porta-potty" threads/discussions is that if you do not have a MSD (marine toilet) in the boat then the holding tank and "locked" seacocks requirements no longer exist.
- - To the simplistic minded, if a MSD (marine toilet) exists in the boat then the holding tank and plumbing for pump-out & discharge have to comply with the regulations. Remove the marine toilet physically from boat and there is nothing for the LEO to inspect.
- - Therefore to cover all possible misinterpretations of the actual regulations by a LEO, remove and plug the hoses and remove and store the toilet in the back of your car or somewhere ashore.
- - Since the OP has anther head in the boat, I would hazard that once the removal of the forward head is done the urgency to install a holding tank, plumbing, etc. will disappear as the space in the former "head" is converted to storage closet.
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Old 09-09-2011, 22:18   #26
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

"Acceptable methods of securing the device include..."

You're overlooking the absence of a key phrase in gummintspeak: "include but not limited to" would leave the door open to other options...without that phrase, those options are it.

He can't wire tie his seacock until it is fixed.

In that case, just remove the handle...that's one of the acceptable methods of "securing" the system. And without a handle, how would anyone know which position the seacock is stuck in?
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Old 18-09-2011, 15:57   #27
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

Quote:
In that case, just remove the handle...that's one of the acceptable methods of "securing" the system. And without a handle, how would anyone know which position the seacock is stuck in?
Would they ever put dye in the head and pump to see where it goes?
so if it is open and the handle is off, the dye will go in the water and they will know.
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Old 18-09-2011, 16:51   #28
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Old 18-09-2011, 16:56   #29
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

They would in the harbors on Catalina Island in CA, but so far that's not happening in your part of the east coast.
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Old 18-09-2011, 17:02   #30
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Re: How to Make My Head Legal ?

I had my Y valve wired to the Tank Position. The USCG that boarded me said it was OK but he would prefer if I wired the thru-hull off as well (he could clearly see the seacock was in the closed position). But they didn't complain and passed my wired off Y valve. Note: the wire was easily able to slip off the handle to make the valve usable, and then replace the wire without untying the whole thing

If the handle is off the valve, they can't tell which way it's pointing, that will force them to use dye (or just believe you). Put the handle on, put some wire or a zip-tie around it. It doesn't have to be functioning, just needs to be in place. If you must, (sorry I didn't the read the OP) pull the hose off the thru-hull. That renders it completely unusable and therefore secure.

I'd be surprised if a Locked door would be considered 'secure'. It would mroe likely result in raised suspicion and a more thorough search of your boat. Cops don't like locked doors make your 'fix' obvious, so they can just glance at it and say its ok. They don't want to get down in there and check things out... Make their job easier and they will be happy to let a few things slide (usually).
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