Compost Head Owners: Would you do it again?

[Scorpius]

Them that have them (including me love 'em. Them that don't, hate 'em.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I wanted to thank all the composting head owners who commented. All were really helpful, and have given me confidence to take the plunge, though full disclosure: I'll have a back-up plan just in case.

I also trolled TrawlerForum for comments (many were small boats upgrading from a porta-potty, so not really apples/apples). Overall, I found one negative comment from someone who hated it and went back to whatever he had before; two neutral comments; and about 40 positive comments.

Thanks again!

Peter

unclog a marine head one time in a real seaway and you will be converted.

[rmlarson1098]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I have a single-head boat that my wife and I plan to take on an open-ended cruise from PNW to Florida. Have done a ton of Internet research but hoping for direct feedback (good and bad) from owners in constant use.

1. Liveaboards - how is it working for full-time use? As your only head?
2. Tropics/Warm weather - still a good choice?
3. When cruising outside US, any issues in replenishing coir/peet?
4. What do you like most about it? Least?
5. Compared to a higher-grade marine toilet (Raritan Elegance, etc.), would you still chose your Compost Head?

Thanks in advance -

Peter

Someone mentioned the 'ick-factor'. We can be so delicate!! I'm not sure how one can make it in the 'real' world and be so squeemish. We like our composter a lot - the feces part isn't much of a problem; the few concerns/raised eyebrows we've had involve the separate tank for urine. To keep everything working smoothly and uncluttered, ALL toilet paper goes in the waste basket next to the head, just like it does traveling in most of the 'Third World', assuming t.p. is even available. We do the same thing in our motorhome.
Reduces plumbing problems dramatically...

[Matt Johnson]

A neglected marine head stinks, and a neglected composting toilet stinks. But even when working well, one of these options still requires almost daily attention... all while playing with your own waste.

We cruised for years with a conventional head and had zero issues (Raritan PHII). I replaced the joker valve once a year as a maintenance item, but the other 364 days I was able to blissfully ignore the head (in areas with direct discharge). The holding tank was an issue when in the States, but that was the only negative we had in 5 years with the system.

Our new boat didn't have a convenient location for a holding tank or associated plumbing, so I decided a composting toilet would be the easiest and most cost effective solution. I now get the opportunity to play with a pee jug every other day and every few weeks a poo container... and somehow this is suppose to be better than once a year touching the joker valve?

Matt

[mjscottinnc]

I replaced my traditional head with a composting head. Gain 2 storage lockers, no more persist head smell, I’d do it again in a microsecond. I line the inside with a kitchen sized garbage bag which lines the bottom and sides. When it’s time to empty, slide the bag out, seal it, put a new one in with ‘the fiber’. I’ve used peat moss and coconut husk for the fiber. The local paper processing plant smells worse.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

I have a single-head boat that my wife and I plan to take on an open-ended cruise from PNW to Florida. Have done a ton of Internet research but hoping for direct feedback (good and bad) from owners in constant use.

1. Liveaboards - how is it working for full-time use? As your only head?
2. Tropics/Warm weather - still a good choice?
3. When cruising outside US, any issues in replenishing coir/peet?
4. What do you like most about it? Least?
5. Compared to a higher-grade marine toilet (Raritan Elegance, etc.), would you still chose your Compost Head?

Thanks in advance -

Peter

Late to the game Peter. I haven’t read all the responses. Hopefully not too many of the naysayers have come out. This topic seems to attract a lot of uninformed opinion.

I’ve cruised as a couple for must something like seven or eight years now with a Nature’s Head. IMO it is one of the best upgrades we’ve done to our boat. Before that we cruised with a standard marine head with holding tank. I never had any serious problems with it — that’s not why I switched. We moved to a composter:

#1. To recover a significant amount of storage space previously occupied by tank and hoses. In its place we now carry two inflatable kayaks, a couple of sails, and miscellaneous tools.

#2. Remove the limitation of having to find a pump out facility. We can essentially cruise indefinitely with the composter. In reality we usually carry enough coir for about a year. It fits in a pretty small space.

#3. Greatly simplify our head system. There’s really not much to a composter, and not much to go wrong.

#4. Improve the safety of our boat by removing two holes in our boat (inflow of water, and outflow of yuck).

To answer your questions:

#1. It works great. We are two people, full time. It is our only head.
#2. I have mostly cruised in colder climes (northern Ontario and now Newfoundland), although I did spend three seasons in Lake Ontario where it can get pretty damn hot. These heads work better in warmer temps, but even where I am they work just fine.
#3. Hmmm, I only cruise outside of the US — in Canada. But I get your point. I’ve had zero issue sourcing coir. I usually buy mine in bulk through various online sources. Like I said, coir is compressed, so it takes very little space to carry a lot. If I had to I could easily carry five years of the stuff without missing the storage space.
#4. Like most? I guess my list above outlines that. Like least? I guess it’s when I have to dump things. The pee bucket gets dumped every two to three days. The main tank averages four weeks for us. I can’t say it’s a pleasant task, but it’s really not a big deal. I just tip the contents into a plastic garbage bag. Takes about 10-15 minutes.
#5. Absolutely. Like I said, it is one of the best improvements we did to our boat. Not saying other systems are bad. The electro disposers are great if you have a lot of power. The chemical treatment systems look fine too, but seem complicated. I just think a composer is superior.

A big caveat though. These heads are designed for two, maybe three adults for full time use. You can have more people for short periods, but not for full time. If I was full time with a larger crew size I would not recommend a composter.

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by rmlarson1098

Someone mentioned the 'ick-factor'. We can be so delicate!! I'm not sure how one can make it in the 'real' world and be so squeemish. We like our composter a lot - the feces part isn't much of a problem; the few concerns/raised eyebrows we've had involve the separate tank for urine. To keep everything working smoothly and uncluttered, ALL toilet paper goes in the waste basket next to the head, just like it does traveling in most of the 'Third World', assuming t.p. is even available. We do the same thing in our motorhome.
Reduces plumbing problems dramatically...

Kudos for your post.

If you have any experience cruising for more than a week or so it becomes obvious just how much toilet paper is used. If you have ever been in a third world country out side of high priced American catering hotels it becomes obvious how much of a luxury toilet paper is. Not to mention that even in decent hotels in the third world toilet paper is never put in the toilet, it is put in a waste basket next to the head.

Just for the record I bought my Seawind in 2012 with a Nature's Way installed. I was agnostic about composting heads but figured if worst came to worst I could go conventional. As time passed it became clear this would not happen. I am still on the huge amount of coir the PO left on the boat; taking up a little less space than of 6 rolls of toilet paper. Only problems I have had is when I don't keep up with the level of pee in the pee bottle and it over flows; but that only happened once. I do have a waste basket where all the TP goes. I do use pet carpet cleaner in the drain to the pee bottle after each use. I did replace the 60mm computer fan for venting with a 90mm fan; bought 5 for $US12 on ebay and gave 2 to a friend with a composting head. Key to success is moisture level. The vent fan helps and if you have a really loose BM you can always add a little more something. I bought some cat litter but have only used it once.

Cruising in the Fl Keys, and down island; sub tropics not really tropics. Doubt I would ever go back to a conventional head; but I never say never.

[toolbar]

We are satisfied with the CHEAD we installed in our trimaran three years ago.

The only time when a conventional head seemed better to me was when the kids were ill and had diarrhea for a week. Spraying poo just cleans up more easily in a round bowl with a flushing system. :-(

Any good workarounds for that ugly scenario? In the end we used the head just as a seat with a single-use plastic bag filled with coconut fiber underneath.

Paul

[Minggat]

I am going to take this drifting just a little.


I don't dive my own bottom when I'm in a slip. Nor do I dive my own bottom when I am in a crowded anchorage or mooring field. The reason is because I know what people do with their wet sewage, even when there is a pump out station or pump out service available.


One day, years ago, it looked like someone had dropped a coffee carafe overboard. It was floating around in the marina. My wife pointed it out to a neighbor, who replied, "No big deal. I threw that out this morning". I was appalled, and it set me thinking. I knew all of the liveaboards there, and I saw the pumpout boat going around. They never stopped at his boat.


Hmmmm
What else are he and his girlfriend casual about.


When I was in La Paz, so many boats sat at anchor for weeks and months. No pumpout service.


Hmmmm.


What the "ick factor" is to me. It has nothing to do composting toilets. It has to do with wet sewage stored aboard, or... not stored at all.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

Hopefully not too many of the naysayers have come out. This topic seems to attract a lot of uninformed opinion.
[SNIP]
#3. Greatly simplify our head system. There’s really not much to a composter, and not much to go wrong.

Thanks so much Mike. I have read all the posts at least once - even cut/pasted them into a single document to share with my friends who think I'm nuts for considering a Compost Head.

Before posting, I searched the archives trying to find information. As you apparently know, these threads devolve very quickly into opinions about what others should do versus actual owner experiences. As one post to this thread summarized: "People that have compost heads love them. Those that don't hate them." Responses to this thread have been refreshingly void of opinion - 90%+ of the responses have been based on personal experience without judgement about what someone else should do. Several, like yours, have been detailed and I cannot thank everyone for the time they took to respond. I hope this thread is discovered by future searchers.

Mike mentions his #3 reason for a Compost Head is simplicity. I realized it was my #1 reason. As part of my refit, I am having the stateroom/head reconfigured, so I am starting with a blank slate. When I put together the attached schematic diagram for a conversation with Peggie Hall (wonderful, bu the way), the amount of stuff and failure points really hit home to me. Over the years, I've spent significant time replacing/repairing each of the items on that diagram multiple times - two days prior to departing San Francisco for Ensenada last year, my macerator pump gave out and had a helluva time replacing it because the brand new replacement was defective (it would run, but wouldn't prime) which I didn't realize at first as I figured I had made an installation error. It was a huge pain in the ass to deal with in the middle of getting ready for a 500 nms trip.

Despite all the great feedback, I think I am going to hedge my bets a bit. The company doing my refit - Niza Marine - Home - are wonderful, and very reasonably priced. I will install a Nature's Head then most likely head north to the PNW for next summer, then south to begin an open-ended cruise to our home in Florida. If, after the PNW leg, we decide the Compost Head isn't for us, we'll stop back in Ensenada and have Niza Marine install a 'normal' marine head system using a Raritan Elegance head.

Peter

[jkleins]

Give some thought to simplifying your system.

Run the toilet direct to holding tank. Get rid of the entire direct discharge system and put in a redundant discharge pump. Maybe an electric one for normal use and a manual for redundancy.

Make a direct run to the sea cock and get rid of the vented loop. (I know this will be controversial). Since the seacock will only be open when you are actively pumping the holding tank there should be no danger of backflow.

This gets rid of all Y-valves and makes two points of egress for the tank if one is clogged or a pump goes bad. The entire system can be snaked if needed although once you get rid of the choke points the likelihood of a clog reduces significantly.

This allow you to schedule when you overboard flush so as not to pollute the water when people are swimming or your making water, etc.

The only thing that will really keep you from using the toilet is an actual toilet malfunction (something that is fairly easy to keep from happening with preventive maintenance) or a holding tank leak. Something that I have to think is very rare.

Jim

[mjscottinnc]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

If, after the PNW leg, we decide the Compost Head isn't for us, we'll stop back in Ensenada and have Niza Marine install a 'normal' marine head system using a Raritan Elegance head.

Peter

When I was refitting my boat I searched the classifieds for 9 months looking for a used composting head that someone tried and decided not to keep... I finally had to buy a brand new one. Just sayin

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by mvweebles

Thanks so much Mike. I have read all the posts at least once - even cut/pasted them into a single document to share with my friends who think I'm nuts for considering a Compost Head.

...

If, after the PNW leg, we decide the Compost Head isn't for us, we'll stop back in Ensenada and have Niza Marine install a 'normal' marine head system.

You're definitely not nuts. In fact these heads are becoming more common all the time. I conducted a poll here a couple years ago here, and I was surprised at the number who reported having one.

But they are not for everyone, and they really are aimed at crews of two for long term use. When I installed ours I initially left all the piping and holding tank in place. I wanted to be able to switch back if the composter didn't work for us.

Obviously it did, and I removed all the plumbing the next season. But I think it wise to really test it out first.

[mvweebles]

Originally Posted by jkleins

Give some thought to simplifying your system.

Thanks Jim - if I end up installing a conventional system, I will give the final design serious thought - you make some good observations.

However, for this thread, my thinking is that if there is a reasonable alternative to a failure-prone system on a boat, why not consider it? I'm not squeamish about working on head systems, but they can be difficult to work on due to installed location and inherent difficulty of dealing with 1-1/2" hoses that often have to be cut-off. Maybe its bad luck, maybe I could do something differently, but if I can reduce the distracting parts of cruising a boat, I'm all-in to give it a try. If it doesn't work out, well, I will go a conventional route and make final design decisions, probably with the input of generous contributors such as yourself.

Many thanks Jim!

Peter

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by jkleins

Give some thought to simplifying your system.

Run the toilet direct to holding tank. Get rid of the entire direct discharge system and put in a redundant discharge pump. Maybe an electric one for normal use and a manual for redundancy.

Make a direct run to the sea cock and get rid of the vented loop. (I know this will be controversial). Since the seacock will only be open when you are actively pumping the holding tank there should be no danger of backflow.

This gets rid of all Y-valves and makes two points of egress for the tank if one is clogged or a pump goes bad. The entire system can be snaked if needed although once you get rid of the choke points the likelihood of a clog reduces significantly.

This allow you to schedule when you overboard flush so as not to pollute the water when people are swimming or your making water, etc.

The only thing that will really keep you from using the toilet is an actual toilet malfunction (something that is fairly easy to keep from happening with preventive maintenance) or a holding tank leak. Something that I have to think is very rare.

Jim

I have no experience with conventional heads in this century so keep this in mind.

I tried to comprehend everything in this post and my first thought was if this is simplifying I would hate to see the alternative. While later comments lead me to believe it does make sense it also convinces me even more that my decision to go with a composting head is the right one.

The only thing I have ever worried about with my composting head is to keep the computer fan that vents it running. I know some folks don't even do this. But my understanding is that human excrement is often 95% plus water and the faster you are able to remove the water the better.

One consideration lightly touched on is under some circumstances a conventional head has advantages. To wit "The only time when a conventional head seemed better to me was when the kids were ill and had diarrhea for a week. Spraying poo just cleans up more easily in a round bowl with a flushing system." Things like excessive alcohol consumption and diet can produce stools similar to diarrhea in terms of the amount of water; water that needs to be quickly dealt with for a composting head to function properly.

Even with what I will call poo with a normal water level can overwhelm a composting head if too much is added too quickly; which is why folks have commented that a composting head is great for two (or maybe three) people; but not more. Thing is the same can be said for a holding tank; too many people can quickly fill up a holding tank.

I have a friend who loves to have guests on his boat and often will have ten or more people on his boat for an evening. Something like this would eliminate a composting head from consideration.

Bottom line is while a composting head is the right choice for me I can understand it is not a one size fits all solution.