Prop Won't Go into Gear

[Chief Engineer]

Since you are at PAX River......You may be another of the unlucky ones who took their boats out into the flostam that came from Nueve Jork State and Pennsyltucky.
Via the Susquehanna....I have had two customers that lost.damged their props/struts.

[daddle]

Originally Posted by Domenic

If the engine does not start at first, water will back up into the manifold ...
Always start the engine before opening the outside water flow.

Wow, now there's odd advice. Raw water pumps barely work under the best of conditions. Running dry for a minute after starting can't be a good idea.

If water can fill the exhaust system in less than a minute of cranking there's a design problem. If the engine doesn't start on the first turn or two there's an engine problem that needs to be fixed. I'd never turn the engine feed water off unless servicing the system. Maybe if leaving the boat completely untended and unwatched, but probably not.

[Pato]

Op mentioned oil level was high on the stick if it was high enough it will cause the cone to "float" because it is not designed to be submersed and can not move the oil to engage

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by Chief Engineer

Yanmars don't have sparkplugs

That's a fact. Sorry, for some reason my head was on a gas engine.

daddle. It's common to start engines that dicharge water through the exhaust with the water flow off. It takes more than a minute for an engine to even warm up.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Domenic

That's a fact. Sorry, for some reason my head was on a gas engine.

daddle. It's common to start engines that dicharge water through the exhaust with the water flow off. It takes more than a minute for an engine to even warm up.

Also referring to your previous post saying to not to open your raw water inlet until the engine has started. The issue is not the engine overheating. Almost all small boat engines use a raw water pump with a rubber or similar material impeller. They shoud never be run dry. Refer to the documentation that comes with your pump or new impeller. For a first start after installing a new impeller you have to use lubricant or you will destroy the impleller. Typically after the first start there's enough water still in the pump from the last run to last the few seconds it takes for the pump to draw water again. These pumps will dry themselves out in only a few seconds at which time the impeller starts to melt and come apart. After that you will get to enjoy the fun task of replacing the impeller and picking the parts out of your cooling system. How long do your impellers tend to last? Perhaps you could share with us the brand of impellers you use. Some of us might want to buy some stock in the company. If they actually last a significant amount of time with this type of treatment, maybe we should be buying the same brand as you.

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Also referring to your previous post saying to not to open your raw water inlet until the engine has started. The issue is not the engine overheating. Almost all small boat engines use a raw water pump with a rubber or similar material impeller. They shoud never be run dry. Refer to the documentation that comes with your pump or new impeller. For a first start after installing a new impeller you have to use lubricant or you will destroy the impleller. Typically after the first start there's enough water still in the pump from the last run to last the few seconds it takes for the pump to draw water again. These pumps will dry themselves out in only a few seconds at which time the impeller starts to melt and come apart. After that you will get to enjoy the fun task of replacing the impeller and picking the parts out of your cooling system. How long do your impellers tend to last? Perhaps you could share with us the brand of impellers you use. Some of us might want to buy some stock in the company. If they actually last a significant amount of time with this type of treatment, maybe we should be buying the same brand as you.

I'm sure you know what is good for your engine. The impeller in my Atomic 4 is about seven years old. If I told you would you make a change? If there is another reason for your question, please send a PM if it's something you don't want to post on the thread.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Domenic

I'm sure you know what is good for your engine. The impeller in my Atomic 4 is about seven years old. If I told you would you make a change? If there is another reason for your question, please send a PM if it's something you don't want to post on the thread.

If you've got a rubber impeller brand that can be run dry and it lasts for 7 years I definitely want to know about it. I just hope they make one for my yanmars.

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

If you've got a rubber impeller brand that can be run dry and it lasts for 7 years I definitely want to know about it. I just hope they make one for my yanmars.

I don't have a yanmar. I have an Atomic 4. You might want to find some other member who as a yanmar, or talk to your local yanmar dealer.

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by Domenic

I don't have a yanmar. I have an Atomic 4. You might want to find some other member who as a yanmar, or talk to your local yanmar dealer.

Maybe I don't quite understand, are you telling me that it is an atomic 4 brand impeller?

I've tried Jabsco, Johnson, and Yanmar impellers in my engines and all of them came with istructions that said they were never to be run dry, even for a few seconds. Once I started one of my engines and failed (forgot duh) to open the seacock (maybe this goes into the confessional). I realized it shut the engine down and opened the sea cock. It wasn't running more than 30 seconds without water. When I restarted I noticed that the water flow was less than usual, so I shut it down and changed the impeller. Four blades of the impeller had actually broken into pieces and the rest showed heat damage. Given my experience I believe the manufacturers when they say don't run them dry.

I've been around boats for 45 years and never seen a rubber impeller raw water pump that can be run dry. In fact the only raw water pump I've ever seen that could be run dry was on a Renault diesel and it had a metal impeller similar to a engine water pump. So again, if you can even remember the brand after 7 years, please share it with us.

[Captain Bill]

Domenic,
Thanks for providing me an opportunity to learn something new. I decided to research impellers that could be run dry for short periods and found "Globe run dry impellers". I had never heard of these before. If they work as advertised they are suppose to be able to be run dry for up to 15 minutes continiously and for many many shorter periods. Is this the brand that you are using in your atomic 4?

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

Domenic,
Thanks for providing me an opportunity to learn something new. I decided to research impellers that could be run dry for short periods and found "Globe run dry impellers". I had never heard of these before. If they work as advertised they are suppose to be able to be run dry for up to 15 minutes continiously and for many many shorter periods. Is this the brand that you are using in your atomic 4?

I have given you reply by PM so the thread is not side-tracked any more than it already has been.

[S/V Antares]

Quote: "If you read my post, I said; Many inboard marine engines oil the gear box, and engine from the same sorce. If this is the case with your engine "

Ok, I understand now. To clarify...There is only one,..... not many..... marine engines that share the engine oil with the transmission. This is the venerable Atomic 4 which Dometic has. Perhaps this was a translation issue as indeed... there are many atomic 4's out there.

While the Globe impellers were quite well recieved when they came on the market in the late 1980,s it is simply not a good idea to run an engine for any amount of time with the rawwater seacock off. Yes, If the engine does not start the raw water can, if the engine is cranked for a prolonged time, fill the lift muffler and mixing elbow. However that is a different problem and clearly not the issue of the OP.

Well then... Can't wait to hear what it is!

[Domenic]

Originally Posted by S/V Antares

Quote: "If you read my post, I said; Many inboard marine engines oil the gear box, and engine from the same sorce. If this is the case with your engine "

Ok, I understand now. To clarify...There is only one,..... not many..... marine engines that share the engine oil with the transmission. This is the venerable Atomic 4 which Dometic has. Perhaps this was a translation issue as indeed... there are many atomic 4's out there.

While the Globe impellers were quite well recieved when they came on the market in the late 1980,s it is simply not a good idea to run an engine for any amount of time with the rawwater seacock off. Yes, If the engine does not start the raw water can, if the engine is cranked for a prolonged time, fill the lift muffler and mixing elbow. However that is a different problem and clearly not the issue of the OP.

Well then... Can't wait to hear what it is!

Thank you for the coment.
Universal who made the A4 gives no warning about starting with the water off. That is common with A4 owners.They do give warning to those who live in areas where water will freeze. They say that will crack the impeller. They recommend the water in the pump be drained, and the impeller be removed if the boat is stored for the winter.
As to the A4...they are still running after forty years…the little beast just won’t die.

I do hope you guys solve the OP's problem.

[Chief Engineer]

I see a lot of engines both gasoline and diesel where the engines have been overcranked.
The least bothersome is a filled water lift muffler that will npt allow the engine to start. Engine size doesn't matter much.

The worst is filling up exhaust enough to backflow into the engine via the exhaust valves. On A4's it can fill the lube oil system with water due to the position of the valves

By the way....we are waiting with 'bated breath

[Captain Bill]

Originally Posted by S/V Antares

Quote: "If you read my post, I said; Many inboard marine engines oil the gear box, and engine from the same sorce. If this is the case with your engine "

Ok, I understand now. To clarify...There is only one,..... not many..... marine engines that share the engine oil with the transmission. This is the venerable Atomic 4 which Dometic has. Perhaps this was a translation issue as indeed... there are many atomic 4's out there.

While the Globe impellers were quite well recieved when they came on the market in the late 1980,s it is simply not a good idea to run an engine for any amount of time with the rawwater seacock off. Yes, If the engine does not start the raw water can, if the engine is cranked for a prolonged time, fill the lift muffler and mixing elbow. However that is a different problem and clearly not the issue of the OP.

Well then... Can't wait to hear what it is!

I agree even with a run dry impeller I would not make it a standard practice to start the engine with the water turned off if for no other reason that I have to crawl by moving engine parts to get to the seacock. If on the otherhand it saves me from an occasional bout of absent mindedness, it might be worth it. then again it might make me too relaxed about the issue, afterall knowing that I can't get away with it without major grief has so far stopped me from doing it twice.

I hope we hear from the op tonight. I would really like to know if he still has a prop. Also if he's solved the contaminated oil mystery. It would seem difficult to get water into that transmission without submerging it.