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Old 21-05-2007, 16:42   #46
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Originally Posted by ssullivan
African or European?
European, the African have no giant wing sticking out of the deck and are thus nonmigratory.
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Old 21-05-2007, 18:03   #47
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First of all you are not comparing a feather to a feather.
it takes 25% more crude to make diesel and it also takes less refining ~meaning there are more chemical components in it when it is combusted.

These are not the same fuels either in viscosity or chemical makeup.

The comparison is:


You have two engines one diesel , one gasoline , in one hour one of these engines will produce 25 to 400 times the soot that the other engine does.
Lets not kid ourselves both of these engines pollute. Its just one pollutes more than the other.



Here is a press release from the American EPA

Diesel Boats and Ships | US EPA

...of course you dont have to believe the changes in the law that the Americans are making regarding the problems with diesels that you claim are not supported by science.If you have ever been to L.A you would know why they are changing them.

At the same time you can ignore this directive from the EPA as well , regarding all gas powered boats
Gasoline Boats and Personal Watercraft | Nonroad Engines, Equipment, and Vehicles | US EPA
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Old 21-05-2007, 18:23   #48
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Capct:

If you want to save the world and point out the big polluters, ya are on the wrong forum:

Most of us on this board are into sailboats. That means you put a sail up and let the wind push or pull ya through the water and across oceans.

So, go to the powerboat forums and raise hell with them guys: Ya can put them all on a guilt trip and demand they ditch the stinkpots and take up rowing instead.

Starting with yourself of course.
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Old 21-05-2007, 18:30   #49
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CSY Man is right again.

Capct, your argument is also pretty weak when your moniker picture is that of a couple of BIG HONKIN' V 8's. Maybe we have it wrong. Do they run on solar power or something similar that you haven't yet revealed?

Steve B.
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Old 21-05-2007, 19:14   #50
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Hey, I also run a center console. I go fast ! I burn fuel ! You won't make me feel guilty. I don't think I can row fast enough to keep up with the tuna.

Sean - power ? - great ! Come over to the dark side. Rumors are not true. Stinkpotters don't eat their young. Some actually know how to handle a boat. Many have a substantial amount of nautical education and training. They often assist sailors howling on their VHF's because they can't make it back to the mooring since their aux won't start.
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Old 21-05-2007, 19:40   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cferger
what i have not been able to find is data comparing biodiesel emissions vs gasoline emissions.
Try this........

NREL: Nonpetroleum Based Fuels - Biodiesel and Renewable Diesel
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Old 22-05-2007, 03:17   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSY Man
Capct:

If you want to save the world and point out the big polluters, ya are on the wrong forum:

Most of us on this board are into sailboats. That means you put a sail up and let the wind push or pull ya through the water and across oceans.

So, go to the powerboat forums and raise hell with them guys: Ya can put them all on a guilt trip and demand they ditch the stinkpots and take up rowing instead.

Starting with yourself of course.
Although I must point out that this is the powerboat section.

I personally enjoy everyones input into any powerboat related post's I have had, but having a sailing background possibly help's understand any bias toward sail.

3 years ago I would have slit me wrist's at the thought of a wanting a stinker.

Dave
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Old 22-05-2007, 08:14   #53
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Dave - (not in reference to CSY Guy's post) - IMO it is not a preference to sail, it is a snob attitude against power boats. It has been around for the 50 years I have been on the water. It is no different than wooden boat owners looking down on those that initially bought fiberglass. Since I have always loved all sorts of boats (and owned most of them at one time or another), I have never understood the attitude.

One thing that I do know to be true is that those who make their living from the sea, that go out on the water in all kinds of weather, that own older boats with tired engines and rusty fitting - those guys have a deeper connection and a better understanding of the ocean, the life in it, weather, engines, tides, currents and all things marine than most of the "sailors" on this forum will ever have. Those that can safely operate a commercial vessel and navigate around the pretty little sloop that is blindly sailing across a shipping channel (oblivious to traffic with some misconception that because they are sail they have the right of way) deserve our respect and consideration.

I enjoy sailing. I also enjoy the fact that I can own 36 feet of quality boat for under 80K. I enjoy fishing. We are primarily catch and release and we go well offshore in relatively small boats. If you are going miles off in a 20 footer, being able to run for home is mandatory. A 36 foot sportfisher could cost 380K. I would love to own one. A 42 GrandBanks trawler could cost even more. Now that is a home on the water.

Some people are great, some have their head up their ass. In 50 years on the water, I have made no connection between the type of boat and the type of individual. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to see it.
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Old 22-05-2007, 11:21   #54
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Although I must point out that this is the powerboat section.
Huh, we have a powerboat section on Cruisers Forum?

This guy was talking to sailboaters:

Quote:
So even if you rag boaters use your motor 25% of the time...you are still putting 2.5 times the crap into the air that a gas engine does.
And the subtitle to this forum is:

Quote:
DISCUSSION BOARD AND PHOTO GALLERY FOR CRUISING SAILORS AND WANNABES
My mistake, I thought this was directed towards us sailboaters...
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Old 22-05-2007, 11:42   #55
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A “sailor”, as we use the term at CF, might be any mariner, or one who travels (cruises) by water.
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Old 22-05-2007, 11:48   #56
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A “sailor”, as we use the term at CF, might be any mariner, or one who travels (cruises) by water.
Okay Gord, so uh a "Cruising Sailor" are now the laundry man on an aircraft carrier according to your definition..?

Or the kid canoing in the creek?
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Old 22-05-2007, 11:51   #57
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You need to learn this power boat stuff CSY, so when your joints no longer bend, you can plow across the stream in your GB36 and winter over in the Bahamas. Yeah, I know...never.....heard it before. They look better and better to me. Only down side isn't the diesel, it's all that flippin' teak !

( I actually know you already have those skills - just bustin' em a bit )
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Old 22-05-2007, 12:06   #58
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You need to learn this power boat stuff CSY, so when your joints no longer bend, you can plow across the stream in your GB36 and winter over in the Bahamas.
Aye, I know a little bit about power boats and I can see one in my future when old age replaces muscle and spirits...

The problem with power boats around South Florida is that most of them seems to be run by amateurs: The only qualifications you need to by a 60 foot cruiser is a line of credit, and it shows in the stupidity.

I don't care if they run up on the reefs, but when they come buzzing by at 20 knots 20 feet away from me, it causes damage and hard feelings. (Yes, I have called the police on some of these idiots and have collected over $1,000.00 in damages)

So, uh not all of them are inconsiderate idiots, but the ones that qualify, really stick out and those are the ones ya remember..
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Old 22-05-2007, 12:35   #59
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True - and it applies to the guy that goes out and buys a 40' bene as his first sailboat and powers thru the mooring field at 6 knots. There are more motor boats and motor boats are viewed as easier than sailboats, so there are clearly more nuts per power than nuts per sail, but plenty of nuts all around. A 40 foot sailboat at 6 knots can really hurt. More often, a 40 foot sailboat improperly moored or anchored, floating free, blowing and bouncing through the fleet, can really do some damage. Our marina got fed up with sailors mooring with only one line so they now provide two on each ball and charged everyone an extra $ 200.- per season. Basic knowledge ! No clue !
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Old 22-05-2007, 12:53   #60
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Some people are great, some have their head up their ass. In 50 years on the water, I have made no connection between the type of boat and the type of individual. Maybe I'm just not smart enough to see it.
This is a thoughtful comment and I whole heartedly agree.

Off the top of my head I can not recall any thread where the sailboat owners have initiated a thread about the problems with powerboats. These posts may be out there but I am not familiar with them. But threads beginning with posts like this one does (as well as "I'm beginning to wonder about..." and "Top Ten") that include perjorative and confrontational language regarding sailboats beg a response. Fortunately the actual subject of the thread was pretty easy to dispute. In any case iIt is not to thoughtful to insult a large part of the board and be offended when the other members respond.

It is really sad that every new member in my cruising club is greeted by cheers from only half the group depending on the type of boat he owns. It is even sadder considering that sailors in the US are too small a lobby to be able to afford to split into factions.
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