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Old 23-08-2014, 08:24   #16
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Re: Trawlers

First MTOA is not a Marine Trader Club. It stands for Marine Trawler Owners Association, MTOA - Marine Trawler Owners Association , and would be a good resource for any trawler owners. The members are very active cruisers. But most coastal cruisers. The Defever owners Group has many long distance cruisers. Most of the boats mentioned that have done long distance offshore runs are boats with active stabilizers. This is a very important point since most would not have done it without stabilizers. Unless you have the patience to wait in a port until the weather conditions are just right, meaning flat calm, a trawler is very, very uncomfortable in most seaways. It isn't an issue of safety so much as crew tolerance. A trawler with its displacement hull in any seas will roll uncomfortably and imagine this for days or even a day. The roll isn't like in a sailboat, but more of a snap roll and most find it very disconcerting. When we go to the Bahamas, we must wait for weather conditions that are right, when if we had our sailboat, we would have found excellent sailing conditions. Size doesn't matter except for perhaps a 50 foot will tolerate smaller seas more then a 40 foot might. The coast and Bahamas don't present much of a problem. You can wait for weather or the time to travel the distance is shorter. Once down island or in the Caribbean in the average 20 knot trade winds, it's a whole different story. Taking advice from those with that type of boat, that have covered that area will be very helpful. But unless someone has actually traveled on an unstabilized trawler, they have absolutely no idea how uncomfortable it can be and are offering unsubstantiated opinions that aren't going to help you make your decision. The Marine Trader is not top of the line, and some are built better than others. There is no consistency. A lot will depend on how well the owner maintained it. But that's the case with most used boats. So best to ask trawler owners that have done more then cruised the ICW or tht use a trawler for a dockaminium. Many trawler owners of all sizes will sit in Carrabelle or Tarpon Springs for weeks waiting for a weather window to cross the Florida Big Bend section of the Gulf of Mexico, or sit behind Key Biscayne for 10 days to 2 weeks to cross over to the Bahamas. In the Caribbean, your wait might be much longer. Chuck
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Old 23-08-2014, 08:26   #17
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by AnchorageGuy View Post
First MTOA is not a Marine Trader Club. It stands for Marine Trawler Owners Association, MTOA - Marine Trawler Owners Association , and would be a good resource for any trawler owners.


Yep, I meant to type "owners' club"...

-Chris
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Old 23-08-2014, 09:44   #18
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Re: Trawlers

Not that I'm an authority on the subject but we lived aboard a DeFever 54 for about 7 years, cruised her from the top end of Johnson Straits in the PNW down to San Diego and many trips to Mexico, Catalina Island, etc and would have cruised to Hawaii with a 500 gal bladder to augment the 1800 gal of tankage already aboard. You would have no problem cruising the areas you mentioned IMHO. Phil
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Old 23-08-2014, 10:25   #19
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
We have a friend who took a 40' Defever from California thru the Panama Canal, up the amazon, down to Argentina, around Cape Horn, and up and down the Patagonian channels.
As an aside, this boat did NOT have active stabilizers.

One of my favorite cruising power boats is Polar Bound (see http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Scott_Cowper), which I suspect has done more serious cruising than any other "small" power boat, also does not have active stabilizers.
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Old 23-08-2014, 11:02   #20
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by MartinAither View Post
Are Trawlers seaworthy enough to go from Florida thru Bahamas to the Caribbean and beyond? 40-50 ft size.
The main factors assuring seaworthiness are, in this order:
1. the captain
2. the crew
3. the Vessel, design and execution.
4. Stabilizers, especially para-vanes (AKA flopper stoppers) used almost exclusively in the fishing trade. They stabilize at rest (think many Caribbean anchorages) as well as travelling, etc.
5. Preparedness. It's usually a number of smaller things possibly combined with a more major event like a storm that sink ships.
6. Full displacement design.
7. Pedigree and proven record such as Nordhaven, Kadey Krogen,
Defever, Monk-McQueen fishing style boats and some others (this list is by no means complete. Many custom-build boats are good.
8. Extreme awareness of the weather especially in these days of changing weather and more extreme events
8. And, obviously, many other factors.
Good luck,
Delivery Guy (I'm now making the transition from a very seaworthy sailboat to trawler.
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Old 23-08-2014, 11:57   #21
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Re: Trawlers

I find most boats can do more than expected ,,,,its the guy behind the wheel that matters
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Old 23-08-2014, 13:38   #22
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by MartinAither View Post
I was looking at cruiser trawlers, Tradewind, Defever, Marine Trader, Mainship.
You might also consider the Hatteras Long Range Cruisers built in the 70's/80's.

The 42 LRC and 48 LRC would be in your size range. They also made 58 and 65 models.

Everyone has an opinion about stabilizers and there are different brands. I think once you have been at sea with a Naiad system they would be a must for your application. The good news is that some of the 42 LRC's and a lot of the 48 LRC's already have them as do many other ocean going trawlers.

Welcome to the Hatteras Long Range Cruiser Club
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Old 23-08-2014, 19:23   #23
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by AnchorageGuy View Post
First MTOA is not a Marine Trader Club. It stands for Marine Trawler Owners Association, MTOA - Marine Trawler Owners Association , and would be a good resource for any trawler owners. The members are very active cruisers......Key Biscayne for 10 days to 2 weeks to cross over to the Bahamas. In the Caribbean, your wait might be much longer. Chuck
Thanks for adding this detailed comment and info, I found it very helpful.
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Old 23-08-2014, 19:36   #24
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by estarzinger View Post
As an aside, this boat did NOT have active stabilizers.

One of my favorite cruising power boats is Polar Bound (see David Scott Cowper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), which I suspect has done more serious cruising than any other "small" power boat, also does not have active stabilizers.
Mr. Cowper has an admirable and outstanding record of records and travel by both sail and motor, usually singlehanded.

When I read about his various circs I was and am impressed.
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Old 24-08-2014, 00:00   #25
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Re: Trawlers

I'm going to say that almost any boat can do what you are asking, which is essentially Coastal Cruising.

Almost any boat that has the fuel endurance to meet the 72 hour of accurate weather forecasting ability can cruise to any destination reachable in that 72 hour time period.

A great example are John and Melanie Wood. Google them. Melanie wood wrote a series of books about their adventures aboard their 38' Bayliner. They cruised the Bahamas, and crossed over to Central America. I believe they are in Honduras right now.

I myself, although not in the specific area you're speaking of have made the trip twice from Washington through Canada, and then accross the Gulf of Alaska which is the longest open water run necessary in North America.

The first trip was in a 34' Bayliner I used to own and the last trip was in my current boat a 48' Bayliner.

We are planning a trip back down from Alaska, and if the wife is willing through the Canal and over to the US east Coast. I cant say for sure we'll go that far, but we will make it down the coast and into Mexico, some 3000+ miles away.

So, Yes you can do it. No problem. Build seamanship skills, and watch the weather. I can guarantee the boat will be able to take more than your body and mind will.
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Old 26-08-2014, 08:22   #26
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Re: Trawlers

The Sundeck is a hard aft chined, twin engine boat- and deep keel with a nice bow flair. Basically the design is that of a typical 40 aft cabin m/y. The boat has excellent wave knock down in the 3-6's and has good initial stability, making her very comfortable in even the nasty weather along coastal situations. Not a 'passage maker' per- se, but surely an excellent choice.

Nordhaven and the like are big water boats- when all you have is high wind and high water around you- they are built and designed for that specifically. The Sundeck Marine Trader is not- however is a very good performer. Success begins between your ears, at the helm, and safety gear. All boats have strengths and weaknesses. Know the weaknesses of yours, and you will be good.

So... yes is the answer to your original question (:
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Old 26-08-2014, 08:39   #27
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
I found this topic and the points made up above very interesting, and somewhat surprising too. I assumed more MY owners would have a very positive position on cruising that area.

I am interested in this topic because I had thought of the same question as OP and was wondering if a Marine Trader 40' Sun Deck would be good for making the trip from Florida to most of the islands (Bahamas and then South) for a few years of liveaboard and cruising there. It is not stabilized, it is not designed like a Nordhavn and it is not a Diesel Duck. While those boats do exist (as well as other types and longer/larger vessels) I was wondering what life would be like cruising that Marine Trader trawler (it cruises at about 6-8 kt). If anyone thinks it would be foolish or unsafe or uncomfortable in that boat cruising that area, feel free to post your comments. I would like to get some opinions.

I posted the above in another thread related to living aboard a MY in Caribbean. I am also interested in how a smaller trawler (40 foot mentioned above) would do for cruising the Caribbean (as the topic of this thread is about that).

While I know others may say "go with Nordhavn or Diesel Duck" and those would surely be NICE to have, they are not possible for all people due to their high cost.
The Sundeck is a hard aft chined, twin or single engine boat- and deep keel with a nice bow flair. Basically the design is that of a typical 40 aft cabin m/y. Quite roomy inside and easy to live in, manage, etc. The boat has excellent wave knock down in the 3-6's and has good initial stability, making her very comfortable in even the nasty weather along most coastal situations. Definitely Not a 'passage maker', but surely an excellent choice in coastal protected water.

Nordhaven and the like are big water boats- when all you have is high wind and high water around you- they are built and designed for that specifically. The Sundeck Marine Trader is not- however is a very good performer. Success begins between your ears, at the helm, and safety gear. All boats have strengths and weaknesses. Know the weaknesses of yours, and you will be good.

So... yes is the answer to your original question (:
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Old 26-08-2014, 13:42   #28
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Re: Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delivery Guy View Post
The main factors assuring seaworthiness are, in this order:
1. the captain
2. the crew
3. the Vessel, design and execution.
4. Stabilizers, especially para-vanes (AKA flopper stoppers) used almost exclusively in the fishing trade. They stabilize at rest (think many Caribbean anchorages) as well as travelling, etc.
5. Preparedness. It's usually a number of smaller things possibly combined with a more major event like a storm that sink ships.
6. Full displacement design.
7. Pedigree and proven record such as Nordhaven, Kadey Krogen,
Defever, Monk-McQueen fishing style boats and some others (this list is by no means complete. Many custom-build boats are good.
8. Extreme awareness of the weather especially in these days of changing weather and more extreme events
8. And, obviously, many other factors.
Good luck,
Delivery Guy (I'm now making the transition from a very seaworthy sailboat to trawler.
To expand on my earlier note, I would like to ad the rare Willard Trawlers. Frankly I've never sailed one. The only thing I can say is they certainly have every appearance, with that nice Portuguese bridge and full displacement, of being being seaworthy.
I have been looking at full displacement vessels with large tankage and one lower-powered diesel. I would not want to rely on speed in heavy weather. We all know that the safest most comfortable condition in heavy weather is dead slow or stopped and down below having a snooze (with someone on watch)) These vessels go further on a given amount of fuel.
Fuel consumption is not a matter of linear calculation. We've all noticed how economy goes up when speed goes down. Now take speed reduction one step further and your economy really goes up. I once had the enlightening experience of moving a 48' 22 ton power boat with an old Merc 2 1/2 hp outboard. I must have got her going 3 knots. Amazing!
In the end, we're talking about low speed, big savings (on fuel) and some degree of safety and comfort.
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Old 26-08-2014, 14:03   #29
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Re: Trawlers

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Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post
...
While I know others may say "go with Nordhavn or Diesel Duck" and those would surely be NICE to have, they are not possible for all people due to their high cost.
George Buehler, the designer of the Ducks, and Bill Kimley, owner of Seahorse, are talking about building a less expensive version of the 382 Duck. They want to minimize the size of the boat to fit in the space of a single shipping container to lower shipping costs. The boat would have less teak, stainless steel, coatings, etc to lower the cost of the boat. The boat would have hanked on sails instead of roller furlers but it would still have sails.

Bill is trying to get a price including shipping in the mid $300,000.

37-38 feet LOA but no info on the beam. Not sure about the draft but I mentioned that it would be good to have a shallow draft for east coast waters. The maximum draft on the 382 is 4' 9" which is not TOOOO bad but less would be better for the US east coast and Bahamas.

The discussion about the new duck is here including what to call her,
Name for New Boat (Not a DUCK) - Topic.

For the new name, I like Puffin.

Later,
Dan
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Old 15-09-2014, 05:42   #30
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Re: Trawlers

The trawler style of power boat (full displacement, deep draft, low centre of gravity, economically driven) is very capable of safe long distance passagemaking. See this website: Cruising Under Power Southeast Asia in a Converted Fishing Boat
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