Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-06-2012, 01:41   #76
Registered User
 
CrawfishColvin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

I see both points-- In my research into trawlers however, I have been given numbers closer to the 8-10gph range....
Nonetheless, from a beginner, newb standpoint, one thing that sticks out is this; I see many blogs, books, accounts, stories, of the young couples, single adventurers, families, etc. that have successfully (and unsuccessfully), set forth on the cruising dream, and almost every one of them did so in a sailboat...
I guess it could be the initial costs as stated earlier, or could be the love of sailing alone, I suppose though, it is mostly because it is financially more feasible....
If money were no object, I would purchase myself a state of the art power-sailer, and enjoy some of both worlds, but, if your looking here at a thread concerning cost comparison, obviously money is a factor...
Thanks all for the answers, I love this site!
Crawfish
__________________

__________________
CrawfishColvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2012, 02:10   #77
Moderator
 
Dockhead's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cowes (Winter), Baltic (Summer) (the boat!); somewhere in the air (me!)
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 19,725
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironhorse74 View Post
I am going to have to figure out whether that is legal for US investors. 10 year treasury here in the US is at 1.47%

My apologies to the moderators for thread drift.
Of course it's legal. Talk to a good broker about it. You in most cases do not pay local taxes on your earned interest, but the biggie is that you take the currency risk -- you have to buy Australian dollars, and you get receive interest and your capital back in Australian dollars. The rate can vary dramatically against the US dollar, and you could lose a lot of money (you could get a windfall, too).

Higher interest rate is almost always associated with higher risks, but very often these risks are worthwhile.
__________________

__________________
Dockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2012, 02:59   #78
Registered User
 
cat man do's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia [until the boats launched]
Boat: 50ft powercat, light,long and low powered
Posts: 4,409
Images: 36
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrawfishColvin View Post
I see both points-- In my research into trawlers however, I have been given numbers closer to the 8-10gph range....
On what?
I could give even more ridiculous numbers and say that you will burn 100 to 200 gph.
But that may be in something 300ft long with 12000 hp travelling at 50 knots.

Quote:
Nonetheless, from a beginner, newb standpoint, one thing that sticks out is this; I see many blogs, books, accounts, stories, of the young couples, single adventurers, families, etc. that have successfully (and unsuccessfully), set forth on the cruising dream, and almost every one of them did so in a sailboat...
Range has a lot to do with this.
It is a specialised vessel that can give range, economy and a reasonnable speed.

Quote:
I guess it could be the initial costs as stated earlier, or could be the love of sailing alone, I suppose though, it is mostly because it is financially more feasible....
I think it is pre conception that sailing is cheaper and it is if you are happy to limit yourself into the average 10 to 12m monohull sailing boat.
I for one could not accept that as a viable vessel for my needs.

And that powered vessels that are comparable in running costs are a rarity, but they are out there.
__________________
"Money can't buy you happiness but it can buy you a yacht large enough to pull up right alongside it"...............David Lee Roth
Long Distance Motorboat Cruising It Is Possible on a Small Budget
cat man do is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2012, 03:38   #79
Registered User
 
CrawfishColvin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Cat-man-do,
Just finishing up reading your blog/article, great info. and inspirational!
Ive looked at Nordhavns, Bering, and mostly restricted myself to steel hull trawlers, but let me say again, I am totally new to this, despite spending alot of time at sea, if that makes sense!
I also see your point now, it boils down to personal preference right? Do i want to be the barebones, small boat, bathe in the sea guy, or take a nice long hot shower at the end of the day.... For me, I and my SO will have to do some serious soul searching in that regard, not to mention dipping our toes into each area prior to even deciding to decide!
My thoughts change every day, and I don't want to clutter the forum with them, but because I am accustomed to a large OSV, trawlers just seemed a fit, but I also love the thought of sailing sans engine.... now, thanks to you and others, I am delving into the Cat world....
Thanks again all, such an awesome site, I am on another site as well, but not including a couple of folks there, this site blows them away!
Crawfish
__________________
CrawfishColvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2012, 04:46   #80
Registered User
 
ebaugh's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: On the boat
Boat: DeFever 44
Posts: 525
Hi Rich...miss being tied up next to you at Palmas!

In the trawler vs sailboat decision, I think the first question is do you want to cross an ocean? There are very few with the fuel range and built with seaworthy enough construction to do that. If finances are a consideration, what is out there is generally pretty expensive compared to sail.

If you don't want to cross an ocean, the choices are endless, and personal preference and budget dictates the choice. If you are willing to travel at sailboat speeds of 6 to 7 knots, the cost difference between sail and power is negligible, especially if you use livable space to make the comparison.

But while there are fine cruising sailboats under 40 feet, there are few trawlers under 40 feet seaworthy enough for extended coastal cruising. So the lowest cost options are all sail.

We looked at sail when we bought our 1985 DeFever 44. It took a mid 50 foot monohull sailboat to have comparable living space. Prices were roughly comparable. A similar sized catamaran of 40 something feet would have worked, but the ones we looked at we're out of the budget since they were newer. We were also a little concerned about adding weight to a 40ish cat as full time liveaboards since they can be sensitive to that.

Happy hunting!
__________________
ebaugh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-06-2012, 05:49   #81
Registered User
 
CrawfishColvin's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 21
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Man,
So much to take in, I think I need a break, lol! So much great info. on here though!
__________________
CrawfishColvin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27-09-2012, 14:15   #82
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: midwest
Boat: Silverton Motor Yacht
Posts: 34
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

We are looking into a trawler for the loop. We now have a 32 foot carver. We looked at a 39 foot mainship trawler here in the Midwest that was for sale. We don't know nothing about sail boats or even know how to do the sails. Have to be careful and not great to use sails traveling on the Mississippi River. There are not many trawlers to check out that are for sale locally either. Husband and I are new into boating. We had our carver for 3 years and have put it for sale for a quick sale. Hopefully have the winter months to find a replacement boat for the following years. Our retirement dream is traveling on our boat.
__________________
JoanK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 09:59   #83
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Boat: Passagemaker Lite
Posts: 43
Images: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataraxia
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by ebaugh View Post
Hi Rich...miss being tied up next to you at Palmas!

In the trawler vs sailboat decision, I think the first question is do you want to cross an ocean? There are very few with the fuel range and built with seaworthy enough construction to do that. If finances are a consideration, what is out there is generally pretty expensive compared to sail.
Have you ever calculated how much fuel you can buy for the price of a mast, rigging, winches, sails, roller furler etc? Unless you cruise for a few years you will never get your return on investment and if you do sail the entire year you are up for a new sets of sails and rigging after 5 years which is also before your return on investment. Yes nothing beats the romance of sailing, but just as with sex if you want it cheap pay for it. The most expensive way from A to B is with free energy.
www.passagemaker.co.za
__________________
Ataraxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 10:46   #84
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
Have you ever calculated how much fuel you can buy for the price of a mast, rigging, winches, sails, roller furler etc? Unless you cruise for a few years you will never get your return on investment and if you do sail the entire year you are up for a new sets of sails and rigging after 5 years which is also before your return on investment. Yes nothing beats the romance of sailing, but just as with sex if you want it cheap pay for it. The most expensive way from A to B is with free energy.
The home of Passagemaker
Having had both a 42 ft trawler and a 45 ft sailboat, I can tell you that this is just not true.

This year, we took the trawler 2,000 miles on part of the Great Loop from Florida up to Lake Ontario and some cruising up there. It gets 2 mpg, and we spent $4,000 miles on fuel at $4/gallon. If we had motored the sailboat for 2,000 miles at 6 miles/ gallon it would have cost only $1,333, or $2,667 less than the trawler--for inland motoring.

We were on the sailboat for 15 years traveling the world, and averaged 6,000 miles per year. On this trip, we used an average of 200 gallons of fuel/year or $1000/year at $5 gallon. The fuel costs on the trawler would have averaged $15,000/year.

We also replaced our sails and rigging every 10 years for $10,000, or an average of $1,000/year for full time sailing.

The advantages of the trawler for inland cruising is that it goes a bit faster (7.5 vs 6 knots) under power, and you get a nicer view from the bridgedeck.

The advantages of the sailboat offshore is that it is quieter and much more stable than the trawler, which rocks like crazy in a cross-sea.

Are we having a great time on the trawler?? Yes, but I'll take a sailboat any time in open water!

Did we have a great time on the sailboat?? Yes, but I'll take a trawler any time in the rivers and canals!
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 11:42   #85
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Boat: Passagemaker Lite
Posts: 43
Images: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataraxia
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by donradcliffe View Post
Having had both a 42 ft trawler and a 45 ft sailboat, I can tell you that this is just not true.

This year, we took the trawler 2,000 miles on part of the Great Loop from Florida up to Lake Ontario and some cruising up there. It gets 2 mpg, and we spent $4,000 miles on fuel at $4/gallon. If we had motored the sailboat for 2,000 miles at 6 miles/ gallon it would have cost only $1,333, or $2,667 less than the trawler--for inland motoring.

We were on the sailboat for 15 years traveling the world, and averaged 6,000 miles per year. On this trip, we used an average of 200 gallons of fuel/year or $1000/year at $5 gallon. The fuel costs on the trawler would have averaged $15,000/year.

We also replaced our sails and rigging every 10 years for $10,000, or an average of $1,000/year for full time sailing.


I agree that nothing beats the feeling of sailing. But our decision to chose for the passagemakerlite was taken after a visit to North Sails for a new set of sails and a roller furler. I quickly calculated how much fuel I could buy for that I realized that the cheapest option was to cut our mast.
Our passagemaker is not a big fat trawler but as a larger internal volume than a sailing yacht of similar size. The consumption of our passagemakerlite is 1,3 US gallon per hour at 6,5 knots or 0,26 gallon per mile so not comparable to your trawler.
What you forgot to take into consideration is the cost of your mast, standing rigging, running rigging, sails, furlers, winches etc. if you would build the same boat without all these you would have a nice budget to buy lots of fuel.

The home of Passagemaker
__________________
Ataraxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 12:17   #86
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ataraxia View Post
What you forgot to take into consideration is the cost of your mast, standing rigging, running rigging, sails, furlers, winches etc. if you would build the same boat without all these you would have a nice budget to buy lots of fuel.

The home of Passagemaker
What you forgot to take into consideration is the cost of the engines.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 12:31   #87
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Boat: Passagemaker Lite
Posts: 43
Images: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataraxia
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

Why? is the 85 hp on a sailing yacht cheaper than the 85 hp on a fuel efficient passagemakerlite?
__________________
Ataraxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 12:39   #88
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Boat: Passagemaker Lite
Posts: 43
Images: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataraxia
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

The problem is that all sailors will agree to live on an hydrodynamic (thus narrow) hull where they are restricted below deck but if they move to a powerboat of the same length all of a sudden it must become a floating palace suitable for ballroom dancing. Compare apples with apples get the mast of your sailing yacht and see you much fuel you use.
Idlewild went around the world (33400 NM) with one 55 hp Nanni diesel on a 50 ft motoryacht I do not even know if they still make 50 ft sailingyachts with only 55 hp. They had an average of 2,35 M per liter.
__________________
Ataraxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 12:58   #89
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

We put 4,000 hours on the engine of the sailboat in 15 years--on a trawler it would have been 12,000 hours on one or more engines.

BTW, I'm just a user of boats, not a promoter, and I don't want into get into arguments with a promoter who pretends to be a user, so I've posted my last comments on this thread.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-09-2012, 13:17   #90
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Boat: Passagemaker Lite
Posts: 43
Images: 3
Send a message via Skype™ to Ataraxia
Re: Question for Cruising Trawlers

I merely promote fuel efficient powerboats such as Diesel ducks by George Buehler, Idlewild, passagemakerlite by Tad Roberts, Ranger Boats by Nigel Irens and others. In this age of fuel shortage and environmental awareness I believe it is important to try to reduce the horsepower thus consumption, should you chose to go the powerboat way for whatever reason you might have. The time of choosing bigger and bigger engine must be changed to more efficient designs. Just as people need to leave their SUV's at home and choose for smaller cars and yes when possible the bicycle.
I reiterate that nothing beats the feeling of sailing. I also cruised with a 42ft sailing yacht and had lots of joy and pleasure with it. On the long run if you are cruising for many years I also agree with you that eventually a sailing yacht is cheaper. Unfortunately my finances will not allow me to keep on cruising forever and I will be restricted to a sabbatical year. On the short(er) term this was the cheapest solution.
__________________

__________________
Ataraxia is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cruising

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Shoestring Sailors (Cruising on $500 per month - part II) David_Old_Jersey General Sailing Forum 1355 13-11-2017 17:32
MPPT Charge Controller for LifePO4 Batteries s/v Holiday Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 185 25-05-2014 16:43
Another Cruising Video Jimbo485 Fishing, Recreation & Fun 11 08-08-2012 22:39
SD30 Saildrive Question AntiqueTri Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 19-04-2012 19:49
Cruising Trimaran Fans? Mike w Multihull Sailboats 30 01-04-2012 00:17



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:05.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.