Question for Cruising Trawlers

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

The other thing I have learned about SOME powerboats is that new engines are really expensive--I'm hearing that it would cost over $50k to repower and that the boat has to be torn apart to get the engines out.

Corrected for you

Some powerboats have power-plants of similar size as their sailing similars and positioned in the same location.

Cost and ease of replacement therefore pretty much the same.

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by cat man do

Corrected for you

Some powerboats have power-plants of similar size as their sailing similars and positioned in the same location.

Cost and ease of replacement therefore pretty much the same.

Of course you might also mention that the powerboats you are talking about cost about 5 times as much to start with

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

Of course you might also mention that the powerboats you are talking about cost about 5 times as much to start with

Really?
37 ft powercat with 50hp x 2 for $180k

CATAMARAN POWER CAT boat details - BoatPoint Australia

Vs

37 ft sailing cat for $198k

PETER SNELL EASY 37 boat details - BoatPoint Australia

If I looked a bit harder I could find several more examples in both mono and multi

[Wittig]

Hi:
Just to add a comment on your comment....
rigging and Shrouds/stays:
If the person would stop buying CRAP and purchase 316L Wire (possibly go up 2 MM in size) with Norsmans/Staylocks ONCE they wouldn't need to replace it for possibly their boating life. The same comment is for sails, if they don't purchase race sails but Triple Stitched, HEAVY weight cruising sails, elk hide trim, and Don't push the boat like a racer, cover them EVERY time you anchor or dock, they "should" last 10 years at least. (20K for sails - are you considering a MAXI boat??) You are replacing the Winches? I had barents that were greased every 6 months if under heavy use and every year for light use. They were 35 years old and worked better than many new winches. NO they were not self tailing but my teeth seemed to work moderately well when needed.
I think that contrasting the cost of ownership vs money in the bank; my suggestion is Don't own a boat. Put all your money in a bank. That way when you die your children can fight over it and talk about how wonderful or what an idiot you were living in a cave and never spending your money on yourself.
Diesel engines if taken care of generally will last AT LEAST 6 - 10,000 hrs (light weight sailboat engines) and medium to heavy weight engines at least 20,000 hours and I know of 8V71's lasting 50,000 hours! (obviously with maintenance). The costs of replacing two moderate size diesel engines in a trawler (say 120 to 150 HP each) is much more than the cost of suit of sails! It seems that I read that a survey of long distance sailors stated that they ran their engines 30 to 40% of the total cruising time.
I do know of powerboat folks that have had their engines rebuilt as a mechanic told them it would "Explode" or some such CRAP if they had over 2500 hrs on it. Stupidly is always with us.
I love sail, am licensed for sail, have sailed since I was 9 years old and ran winchless scows (at 13) up to 38' and now am pushing 70. I just don't have the stamina for long distance sails and went to a trawler when I was 65 for less safety but more comfort (IMHO). I know of a few sailors that are 80 and are still at it. Good for them!
My 2C

Capt. Rich Wittig and
Capt. Judy Wittig
M/V Moonshine

[BillAU]

Thanks for that helpful post Capt. Rich and Admiral. Judy (I promoted your wife just to be on the safe side )
The 32' power yacht I was after turned out to be a scam, the seller wanted me to send him the full asking price...To a PO box The ad has now been removed from that boat site, so, it's back to searching for a 32' to 42' power cruiser for me. The three PC's I am looking at are single screw powered by Ford Lees 110 or 120HP engines, and aged from 1975 to 1989 so I had better get full details on the condition/serviceing of their engines before making any decissions or...Perhaps I should look at a few sailboats, after all, I could always fit power winches but I don't fancy doing that...The more fancy gadjets on-board, the more to go wrong Decisions decisions
Perhaps I should consider something like the Trawler below, I can easly afford to buy it at the asking price BUT! Could I afford to convert and operate it I doubt it If any of you bods are into doing-up/converting work-boats to cruisers, this could be what you're looking for I have thought of buying it but the local marinas say it's a weee bit to big to park with them

I firmly believe running this girly would insure I was flat broke when I pass-over...Not a red cent left behind for the ungrateful kids to fight over...Still...They could always fight over the boat

Used Steel Fishing Vessel for Sale | Boats For Sale | Yachthub

What do you reckon this Steely would burn per hour in diesel Captain...3, 4, 5 hundred gallons or what

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Wittig

Hi:
Just to add a comment on your comment....
rigging and Shrouds/stays:
If the person would stop buying CRAP and purchase 316L Wire (possibly go up 2 MM in size) with Norsmans/Staylocks ONCE they wouldn't need to replace it for possibly their boating life.

Yep, had that
316L OVERSIZED wire with Ronstan swage terminals

The same comment is for sails, if they don't purchase race sails but Triple Stitched, HEAVY weight cruising sails, elk hide trim,

yep, had that heavy weight cruise lam, all triple stitched AND GLUED

and Don't push the boat like a racer,

Whats the point of having fast boats if you don't sail 'em fast?
Same goes for wally's who own Porsches and Ferraris.

cover them EVERY time you anchor or dock,

Yep, did all that

they "should" last 10 years at least.

"Should" didn't happen.

If I didnt actually use the boat like the majority of owners (looks to marina full of unused boats every day) they probably would have lasted ten years, probably longer.

(20K for sails - are you considering a MAXI boat??)

Might be for you
The sailing version of what I am building now

You are replacing the Winches?

No, but I would have had to buy a set initially.
Good ones do cost money and plenty of it.

[BillAU]

Some points people outside of Australia may not be aware of, everything in Oz cost quite a bit more than the same item bought elsewhere, specialy in the States. Electricity, Gas, Food And Drink, Phone Usage, Fuel, Cars, Homes, Boats and "anything" to do with the forementioned, cost a lot more than the same item off-shore, specially the States
Australia was once known as, The Lucky Country but that was some years ago and things here in Oz have changed...BIG TIME
We now have taxes on taxes on taxes and all governments, local to fedral, keep dreaming-up new taxes just about every day...But they call them FEES And big business is no exception...Banks, Insurance and others raise their fees at the drop of a hat. My own home and contents insurance went up by $100au this year, it would have been $200au had I gone with the raise in value of my home and contents, I let that stay at the same as last year so the rise was $100au. And my car/s registration also went up by around $100 for the year! I'm betting my car/s insurance will also have risen when I get it in later this year...Why is this Simply because they can! And don't believe having other suppliers from offshore open for business here in Oz will bring down the costs...They say they will do just that BUT...Once they get here and see they can charge what they like, they too climb on the band wagon!
The Lucky Country. It used to be but that has changed BIG TIME! Still, I love Australia, now all I need to do is figure-out the best way to get value for my dollar

Bill
Australia

[dirkdig]

I am an average aussie and i can not wait to sail away from here.
The tax and fees and levies and fines and carbon tax and registration and compliance and price increases and duties and rates and land taxs and import duties are sending me broke quick.

[BillAU]

Originally Posted by dirkdig

I am an average aussie and i can not wait to sail away from here.
The tax and fees and levies and fines and carbon tax and registration and compliance and price increases and duties and rates and land taxs and import duties are sending me broke quick.

I hear you loud and clear Dirk mate, Oz is a great place...Just a pitty so few of us can afford to live here I would hate to be a young bloke just starting out, getting married and buying a home in Oz.
I too am in Geelong, Corio, so we may meet-up down the harbor sometime. I have a Careel 22 at present so I can't see me sailing to far away but...That could change

Cheers Dirk mate,

Bill
Australia

[cat man do]

This was the thread for you

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...rgh-72482.html

[CrawfishColvin]

Hi CF'ers,
My first post, but I found this site via google, and this thread, so wanted to get some clarification?
First off- loads of sea-time, but zero experience sailing, or piloting for that matter, just on the bus so to speak.... But I have been looking at trawlers, but have started also looking at monohull sailboats-
The jist of wjhat is being said in this thread is that there is little to no difference in operating and maintenance cost associated with trawling or sailing? As a cruiser, not living at a marina.....
I find it hard to believe? Help me out here? The sailboats I am looking at have a single 50hp engine, with a 75 gallon tank, but I see many are taking these on very long passages....

[Wittig]

I seem to be on here too much. So here is more and More..

IMO: It is more difficult to learn to handle sail than power. Much more experience at sea is required.

It is without a doubt more expensive to move a power boat than sail.

My old 43 sloop burned 0.6 to 0.7 gal per hour diesel(6 kts), my 43 Defever with twins at optimal speed at about 1550 to 1600 RPM's burns 4.3 to 4.6 per hour at 7 kts. I carry a THOUSAND Gal of Diesel, my sail boat carried 60 plus 40 more in Jugs stored everywhere.

Even given the cost of sail replacement, sail is the way to go for long term cruising.

For my wife of 50+ years and myself, the work involved in reefig, furling, etc etc just got too much. Given my old sailboat had a draft of 7' which required some special routes and my power boat has 4.6' draft and doesn't have a 58' stick to worry about for bridges, we like the powerboat. If I was 15 years younger we would still own a ocean capable sloop, cutter, ketch, or yawl. Much Cheaper for long distance cruising. In the U.S. my favorite for the least expense is a 52 to 54 Amel. A wonderful French world class cruiser. (In the Med they are Very expensive) Even over here you most likely will not find a Amel in good shape under 175K or possibly 200K. Two experienced folks can handle this boat in almost any weather. (ALMOST)

Regards,
Capt. Rich

[DeepFrz]

Read Egret's log on the Nordhavn site.

[BillAU]

With the controversy between Sail V Power I guess it all comes down to personal choice. I was thinking...Would cruisers not be better off to go with a Motor-sailor? With a Motor-sailor, cruisers could sail with favourable winds and motor when the wind is unfavourable and/or Motor-Sail if they like. That way the sails/rigging and the engine would last a lot longer before needing to be replaced, or would it, Am I missing something Why don't cruisers buy motor-sailors instead of straight-out Sail or Powerboats

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Wittig

It is without a doubt more expensive to move a power boat than sail.

My old 43 sloop burned 0.6 to 0.7 gal per hour diesel(6 kts), my 43 Defever with twins at optimal speed at about 1550 to 1600 RPM's burns 4.3 to 4.6 per hour at 7 kts. I carry a THOUSAND Gal of Diesel, my sail boat carried 60 plus 40 more in Jugs stored everywhere.

Using your inefficient powerboat and comparing it to a cheap mono you are correct.
Now try doing it with and EFFICIENT powerboat and you will see a difference.

Look to the vessel in my sig for example

50 ft trawler using 1 l/nm at 7 knots

After cruising the boat for twelve months we are consistently getting 7 - 8 litres per hour at 7 knots (1100 RPM) and we are ecstatic!!

Thats 10 litres/hour EVERY hour, less than you use, and on a longer vessel