Powerboats and the price of fuel

[Mithril Bham]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Humm, the price of oil has been going up way before Putin's war. Just look when the price started to climb. Putin's war is not helping but either is the president.

I am taking a guess when they started to use oil as a fuel. I think in the 1870's or maybe a bit later. You will never see a fuel that will be used as long as oil. 150 years and counting. I don't know the exact energy produced by a gallon of gasoline but it is a lot. So those old timers picked a good fuel.



Sent from my Moto Z3 Play using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

How about wood? LOL

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Shanachie

So I was reading about the soaring price of gasoline, thanks to Putin's war, and got to thinking about a big speedboat that tossed a sizeable wake at me in a narrow ICW channel.

He had four 350-hp outboards on the stern, from what I could see, and he had them close to wide-open throttle.

Each of those motors can burn as much as 60 gallons an hour at WOT, according to what I read. Times four. The way I work it out, that's 240 gallons of gasoline an hour.

Let's see. 240 by $5 a gallon (the price they're predicting soon) equals $1,200 an hour to endanger manatees and annoy people content to enjoy the water at a more leisurely pace.

I hope he was having fun.

1) It likely cost them $600-800 last year and they likely got a bigger than typical raise this year...If you can afford a $250-500k toy and another $10-20k/yr to keep it running, the extra $400-600/hr is unlikely to phase them.

2) Running at 60mph, they likely aren't running a lot of hours. It only takes a 1/2hour to get 30 miles up the coast.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by wingssail

The boat pictured below, I was informed, took on 200,000 gallons of fuel in Falmouth Harbor, Antigua, in order to cross the Atlantic.

At $5/gal that is $1,000,000 for fuel for one crossing, and apparently they were doing it twice a year.

I was unable to determine if the owner was going to be aboard, but the crew was, and when I saw a staff meeting on the upper deck one day, it looked rather large. So, we could divide that fuel use by the number of people.

Still, it seems like a large carbon footprint.

What's the per week rental on that boat? Very few of these big yachts aren't primarily in the charter game and the really big ones are often well into the 6 figures per week, so well worth it.

Of course, how much of that 200,000gallons is used in the crossing? Or are they maxing out at lower prices in the Caribbean, so they can buy less of the $8/gal fuel in the Med? Saving $3/gal on 200,000 is a $600,000 savings.

[billgewater]

I was happy to use rice fuel, but it may go against the grain.

[TrentePieds]

Scorpius said: "Rice fuel? Sounds like a great idea."

We mustn't say such things any more, but when Scorpius and I were young and Datsuns (now called "Nissans") first arrived on these shores - I had one of the first batch in 1968 - they were known to all and sundry as "rice burners" :-)

TrentePieds

[Shanachie]

You guys are really punishing me for having a funky keyboard ... it's not rice!

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Scorpius

Rice fuel? Sounds like a great idea. Would probably catch on in Asia.

If we can make it from corn, I'm sure we can from rice.

Probably not cheap though.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...64032120304949
Rice bran oil-based biodiesel as a promising renewable fuel alternative to petrodiesel: A review



They've been talking about it for years! From 2007
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-b...31070020070117
Producing fuel from rice will help resource-poor Japan reduce its dependence on imported gasoline and make better use of deserted farmland, a government official in charge of the country’s biofuel policy said.

[grantmc]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

What's the per week rental on that boat? Very few of these big yachts aren't primarily in the charter game and the really big ones are often well into the 6 figures per week, so well worth it.

Of course, how much of that 200,000gallons is used in the crossing? Or are they maxing out at lower prices in the Caribbean, so they can buy less of the $8/gal fuel in the Med? Saving $3/gal on 200,000 is a $600,000 savings.

Motor Yacht A (MY A) is a superyacht designed by Philippe Starck and built by the Blohm & Voss shipyard in Kiel, Germany. Finished in 2008 rumoured to have cost US$300 million. With a length of 119 metres she is one of the largest motor yachts in the world. A is owned by Russian oligarch Andrey Melnichenko. Here she is in wikipeadia.

But she runs on diesel not petrol, and as the post said has a 750,000 litre fuel capacity giving her a 6,500 nm range at 19 knots with a crew of 35. She has 3 tenders that cost a million dollars each. I doubt that the cost of fuel is of much concern to the owner.

Oh and she's not available to rent. But back in 2015 Forbes were reporting you could rent super yachts for as little as US$200,000 per week plus consumables.

$5 per gallon is so so cheap!
That said $5 per US gallon is ridiculously cheap to most of us living outside of the US. Here in NZ petrol retails for a tad under $3 per litre so equivalent to about $11 per US gallon. And yes it's risen dramatically since Xmas when it was about $2.30. But rice is still pretty cheap here, about $1.50 per kg.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by grantmc

Motor Yacht A (MY A) is a superyacht designed by Philippe Starck and built by the Blohm & Voss shipyard in Kiel, Germany. Finished in 2008 rumoured to have cost US$300 million. With a length of 119 metres she is one of the largest motor yachts in the world. A is owned by Russian oligarch Andrey Melnichenko. Here she is in wikipeadia.

But she runs on diesel not petrol, and as the post said has a 750,000 litre fuel capacity giving her a 6,500 nm range at 19 knots with a crew of 35. She has 3 tenders that cost a million dollars each. I doubt that the cost of fuel is of much concern to the owner.

Oh and she's not available to rent. But back in 2015 Forbes were reporting you could rent super yachts for as little as US$200,000 per week plus consumables.

$5 per gallon is so so cheap!
That said $5 per US gallon is ridiculously cheap to most of us living outside of the US. Here in NZ petrol retails for a tad under $3 per litre so equivalent to about $11 per US gallon. And yes it's risen dramatically since Xmas when it was about $2.30. But rice is still pretty cheap here, about $1.50 per kg.

750,000liters is right around 200,000 gallons (close enough for govt work). 6500nm range is enough to go Antigua to Sicily with a 1/3 of a tank left over. Of course, that assumes, they don't throttle back a bit to increase range. It's unlikely the oligarch will be onboard, so if he isn't planning to use it in the next week, no harm in doing the crossing at 12-15kts. That might leave 100,000gal in the tank upon arrival.

$200k/wk is still well into 6 figures and consumables can easily tack on an extra $50-100k (including fuel...and they might charge the fuel out at $10/gal European prices even though they paid $5/gal), 40 weeks at 250k/wk, is around $10million in rental income. Of course, the $200k/wk is bottom of the barrel cost for super yachts. Top of the line boats could go for several times as much per week.

Mr. Oligarch may be rich enough not to care about rental potential but most of these big yachts are in the game. Or it may not be formally in charter but use is given out as bribes to business associates.

[rslifkin]

As far as boat fuel use, I can say that we'll definitely be spending even more time at 6.5 kts than we already do and seeing us get the boat up on plane will be rare (we can cruise at 17 kts, but at 2.4 times the fuel use per mile compared to 6.5 - 7 kts).

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

A 747 with 500 passengers burns 3,600 gal/hr = 7.2 gal per passenger per hour

A cruise ship with 5000 passengers uses 3,300 gal/hr = 0.66 gal per passenger per hour.

The boat with the 4 x 350hp motors and say 5 onboard uses 240 gal/hr = 48 gal per passenger per hour.


Now, kiddies, can anyone tell me who has the largest carbon footprint?

Ah. But that 747 isn't necessarily full on every flight. And it also requires more carbon-contributing support infrastructure than a small boat. For moving a person around, it's still more efficient. But when you look at the people who are flying hundreds of hours in a year, or worse, flying on a small private jet (dramatically less efficient per person), then the footprint of those people starts to look larger.



Footprint of many corporations or those with superyachts (especially when they're rarely on board, but having the thing moved all over the place) can easily get so large that the entire general boating public is a drop in the hat. Not to say we shouldn't improve where we can, but us boaters aren't the biggest problem to attack by any means.

[MicHughV]

I was in San Juan, Puerto Rico, some years back, when one of these mega yachts pulled in...I was told it was a Russian boat.

It was there for fuel.

Several diesel tanker trucks were lined up to feed this monster. No typical car fuel dispensary for them. Can't remember how long it took to "fill 'er up", but it was quite a few hours.

The process attracted quite a crowd.

Likewise, I've been on a cruise ship when it gets fueled up.

A diesel tanker "barge" pulls alongside, the delivery hose must easily be 12" in diameter. Despite this large hose, it took some time to transfer fuel.

All things considered, your average boater doesn't use much fuel.

[rfkneller]

But think of the massive increase in penis size that those four outboards effectuated!

[sinnerman]

Originally Posted by Cliffhanger

A 747 with 500 passengers burns 3,600 gal/hr = 7.2 gal per passenger per hour

A cruise ship with 5000 passengers uses 3,300 gal/hr = 0.66 gal per passenger per hour.

The boat with the 4 x 350hp motors and say 5 onboard uses 240 gal/hr = 48 gal per passenger per hour.


Now, kiddies, can anyone tell me who has the largest carbon footprint?

My Ex -wife.

She is so fat that when she walks in high heels she strikes oil.

[Adelie]

I fixed the title.

[zstine]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

We moan and groan about the carbon footprint, but the average joe in the street is small potatoes compared to the above..

This sentiment is so false! There are far more average Joe's than jumbo jets, etc. So if all average Joe's (you) reduce emissions by 10%, it would have a far greater reduction on emissions than jumbo jets reducing emissions by 10%. The attitude that 'what I do doesn't matter' is the root cause of climate change! we're in this together and will only fix it together.