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Old 09-12-2013, 16:32   #31
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

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I gather even a large 10,000 lb power boat gets blown around by the wind worse than my Hunter 28?
Yes. You can't reef your deck house. Check out threads on docking, and if that doesn't help I'll have more time to yak tomorrow...

-Chris
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Old 10-12-2013, 05:49   #32
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

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Yes. You can't reef your deck house. Check out threads on docking, and if that doesn't help I'll have more time to yak tomorrow...

-Chris


Ah, so snow is keeping me home today.... and now I see I hadn't realized how many had already chimed in...

I was thinking about this thread Docking and others like it, that discussing docking techniques to a certain extent. There are similar threads on Trawler Forum (sister site) that may be more applicable to twin screw powerboats...

That said... What's a Campion? Inboard with straight shafts? Inboard with azipod drives? IO, with external drive legs? Outboard? These all work slightly differently at slow speeds...

-Chris
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:12   #33
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

Snowing here too, keeping me from doing the sea-trial and completing.

The legs mated to the Volvo 5.7s don't have rudders behind the props so I am not sure what turning the wheel does.
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:23   #34
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

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Snowing here too, keeping me from doing the sea-trial and completing.

The legs mated to the Volvo 5.7s don't have rudders behind the props so I am not sure what turning the wheel does.
You mean it's inboard /outdrives?
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:44   #35
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

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Snowing here too, keeping me from doing the sea-trial and completing.

The legs mated to the Volvo 5.7s don't have rudders behind the props so I am not sure what turning the wheel does.
Geez, the Campion folks are pretty frugal with the drivetrain info. Finally found a tiny ref that says the Allante models are "IO" in their interactive catalog.

So... inboard/outboard. Engines inside the boat, outdrives hanging off the aft end. In this case, the outdrives will likely have two props each, counter-rotating, said to be more efficient. When you turn the wheel, the outdrives turn, too... and the props move the boat away from (in forward) or toward (in reverse) the direction they're facing... much like an outboard except you can't see the power head.

IMO these are slightly more difficult to maneuver at dead slow speeds for two reasons: you can't see which way the props (rudder action) are facing, and the props aren't far enough apart from each other to get perfect turning action by spinning the props in opposite directions (gears).

Still... it is what it is... and it's not difficult to learn these. In forward, turn the wheel the direction you want to go. In reverse, turn the wheel the same as you would when backing your car into a parking space.

So, you'll use the props (outdrives) for both propulsion and steering. In reverse especially, that means you simply power the boat backwards around corners and into slips. Maybe slightly easier if you can imagine which way the powerhead would be pointing if it were an outboard... 'cause the boat will go that way.

Trim may not actuallt mean trim TABS on that boat. The outdrives are also adjustable up/down for angle of attack in the water column. Full up, for example, would be for when you're docked or moving the boat onto a trailer, sometimes you can vary draft if temporarily necessary in skinny water, and so forth. (See website/catalog ref to "draft UP" (my emphasis), meaning with the outdrives lifted to their highest point.)

Underway, you can experiment with various adjustments to get he best ride. If they were tabs, they would force the back of the boat upward (when deployed) which in turn forces the bow down. It's a feel thing, but you can also compare to speed at various angles, maybe compare to fuel consumption at various angle (if you have a gauge like that), spray and wake levels, etc.

You'll probably find the bow is a bit tender in a blow, so if docking stern-to while crosswise to the wind it'll be a matter of more positively driving the boat around corners and into the slip. The bow will be wanting to wander to leeward... not to worry, just get used to it

-Chris
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Old 10-12-2013, 10:55   #36
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

Yeah, many outdrives are not to be operated except in the full down position. I guess it depends on which you have...
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Old 10-12-2013, 20:20   #37
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Those 'Legs" or outdrives transmit power to the propeller from the engine, first horizonntally thru the transom, then vertically, and finally horizontally again through the propeller shaft. Like an outboard, the shifting mechanism is in the outdrive. The outdrives contain many moving parts and need to be well maintained to insure water does not get into the gearing . If the boat is in the water all the time, the maintenance factor is increased. Make sure your surveyor checks both units when you haul the boat particularly for water intrusion into the gearcase and any electrolysis damage. .
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Old 10-12-2013, 21:42   #38
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

What configuration would be better for this kind of HP? I liked the direct drive of the sailboat but I don't imagine that would work very well for 5.7's?
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Old 10-12-2013, 21:57   #39
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What configuration would be better for this kind of HP? I liked the direct drive of the sailboat but I don't imagine that would work very well for 5.7's?
I would tell you that not only does it work very well, but would be my desired configuration. My opinion if it stays in the water, I don't want I/O's. Others of course may have differing opinions
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Old 11-12-2013, 01:39   #40
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

HP not a factor, racing out drive units handle 1,000+hp. Most inboard powered trailer boats use I/O units. Larger boats kept primarily in the water are designed with V-drive or straight shafts. The engines in the Campion you are looking at are mounted next to the transom so the drive shaft goes directly in to the I/O drive. V-drive configurations also have the engine mounted near the transom but turned around. The engine power shaft faces forward and goes into the V-drive transmission which sends the power back on a propeller shaft through the hull.
Downside to I/O's in the water all the time is exposure to salt water & electrolysis.
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Old 11-12-2013, 10:37   #41
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

For a 30 foot boat, I would look for one with conventional shafts. Outdrives are the most problematic part of these type boats usually, and expensive to fix. once the boat gets above the normally trailerable length/width, many builders go to shaft drive to avoid the outdrive issues.
Anouther thing to watch for is the transom core.... outdrives penetrate the transom and many builders just cut a hole and install the outdrive... the plywood core saturates with water over time from these holes or swim step or other holes in the transom. You have to remove the outdrives to rebuild the transom properly.
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Old 11-12-2013, 15:54   #42
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

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What configuration would be better for this kind of HP? I liked the direct drive of the sailboat but I don't imagine that would work very well for 5.7's?

Yeah, it's not a question of horsepower versus propulsion method... and the inboard/outboard configuration (i.e., with outdrives) can be pretty efficient anyway.

It just comes with some issues you'll have to pay attention to (as do boats with straight shafts, V-drives, outboards, etc.) that are specific to outdrives.

Corrosion from being kept in the water is the most common; often folks around here with outdrives keep the boat in a boatel or other dry storage facility, or in a wet slip but with a lift. Or if the boat isn't used weekly and launching can be convenient, on a trailer.

I've read you should also keep an eye on the bellows over time watching for time to replace those.

I've also been reading in another forum about periodic replacement of elbows and risers -- and sometimes manifolds -- in the exhaust system. Sounds like that's an every 5 year job for fresh-water cooled boats, maybe more often for raw water cooled... because you can't tell from the outside how inevitable internal corrosion is impacting those cast parts. One recommendation, though, was to periodically remove, inspect, replace only when necessary but otherwise reuse what you've got... and it seems to me that would let you keep a closer eye on that, even if it does mean more labor. (This being about inboard gas engines in general, not just an I/O installation.)

And so forth. Ideally your dealer can walk you through all the service issues you should plan for.

-Chris
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Old 13-12-2013, 09:35   #43
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

Did the sea-trial today, (finally), boat is 9.5/10 and what a ride!

All I can say is ... Wow!

She is now sitting in my slip. Waiting for adventures.
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Old 13-12-2013, 12:00   #44
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Don't wait for adventure - hang every fender you can beg, borrow or steal over the gunwale and practice leaving and entering your slip. You will get used to how the boat handles with the twin outdrives and have all the adventure you can stand during the first few days of powerboat ownership. Go as slow as you can, use the shifters to control direction and ignore the audience on the dock.
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Old 14-12-2013, 21:54   #45
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Re: Help! Transitioning from sail to twin screws

Yes I have yet to take the helm, brought the boat home in the dark so I decided to let the seller take the risk before completing and paying him. Skimming along at 30 plus mph is a whole different thing for me and in the dark we couldn't see the logs in the water until they were just feet away. There aren't a lot of deadheads and logs normally but always a few so seems to be a numbers game playing the odds when motoring at night. If the water was rough it would be impossible to see them!
When we got to the marina we needed to see dock numbers so he used the spotlight on the radar arch with remote control to the helm ... Worked great.

Seller told me he leaves the through valves open all the time, (engine cooling, sink and toilet), but that seems dangerous to me.

Also wondering about the salt water intake drawing fresh water off the surface and freezing. I understand people use compressed air to clear the line and then close the valve and fill it with antifreeze. Seller told be to leave a lightbulb on the the engine compartment instead.
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