Vendee Globe Starts Today, Facts, Video, Discussion

[Polux]

Originally Posted by SV Sea

Love the Banter but how many boats will decide to commit to the Vendee without running foils in the years to come? Maybe the boats with a limited budget? Looks like a clean sweep to me FOR THE FOILERS!
the closest boat not running them is over 1400 nm's behind! Too bad Alex has only been racing with one foil for over a month! he'd be smoking the field with two!

I don't know about that, probably you are right regarding foils but while Riou was on the race he proved that an older design and plus, a non foiled boat could have about the same performance of a new design foiled one and he had done that on the more favorable part of the race for foilers.

If he was up with the two leaders, going up the Atlantic on the conditions they had found I have few doubts he would be leading the race.

Foils are good in some conditions bad on others. On mixed conditions foiled boats don't stand a chance. That is what happened on the last Fastnet.

Well I should have said that with this type of foils. What these IMOCA foilers need is to have these foils but also the daggerboard foils to go well upwind, but the rules limit the number of foils. And in a sense I agree with them. A big number of foils is not good regarding overall boat development and will not provide a good input to cruising boa's development.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

I don't know about that, probably you are right regarding foils but while Riou was on the race he proved that an older design and plus, a non foiled boat could have about the same performance of a new design foiled one and he had done that on the more favorable part of the race for foilers.

If he was up with the two leaders, going up the Atlantic on the conditions they had found I have few doubts he would be leading the race.

Foils are good in some conditions bad on others. On mixed conditions foiled boats don't stand a chance. That is what happened on the last Fastnet.

Well I should have said that with this type of foils. What these IMOCA foilers need is to have these foils but also the daggerboard foils to go well upwind, but the rules limit the number of foils. And in a sense I agree with them. A big number of foils is not good regarding overall boat development and will not provide a good input to cruising boa's development.

Old saying "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride" facts can't be changed, foilers are way in front of the pack. Alex has a damaged boat that in some conditions has slowed him down. We can all reinvent the past and make excuses but in the end doesn't change a thing.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Old saying "if wishes were horses, beggars would ride" facts can't be changed, foilers are way in front of the pack. Alex has a damaged boat that in some conditions has slowed him down. We can all reinvent the past and make excuses but in the end doesn't change a thing.

Again, the only really top of the crop sailor with a fast boat without foils was Riou and he was among the first till he was forced to abandon.

Secondly, foiled boats had been wiped out on the last Fatnet, showing that in races with upwind and downwind sailing the new foilers are slower.

I mean this type of foilers. I am not sure if the design will be maintained by all on the next vendee. Lots of different foils around on racing monhulls and even more on the design board.

And by the way, the old boats have foils too. The diference is that while the older foils are to maximize tracking ability when going upwind the new one are for lifting the boat, not completely but to make it "lighter". The boats with the old foilers are much better upwind.

[robert sailor]

Originally Posted by Polux

Again, the only really top of the crop sailor with a fast boat without foils was Riou and he was among the first till he was forced to abandon.

Secondly, foiled boats had been wiped out on the last Fatnet, showing that in races with upwind and downwind sailing the new foilers are slower.

I mean this type of foilers. I am not sure if the design will be maintained by all on the next vendee. Lots of different foils around on racing monhulls and even more on the design board.

And by the way, the old boats have foils too. The diference is that while the older foils are to maximize tracking ability when going upwind the new one are for lifting the boat, not completely but to make it "lighter". The boats with the old foilers are much better upwind.

Interesting info, thanks.

[Polux]

New update.... and things could not be more interesting on the race:

As I supposed and we had seen before, Hugo Boss is faster than Banque Populaire on strong winds and Armel is not able to race at the same speed as Alex (or is not trying hard). On the last 4 hours Armel lost 6.7k to Armel.

Maybe Armel is trying to save the boat but he felt the danger and increased pace but even so he is 0.8k slower than Alex. Till the light wind ridge they have more 34 hours.

If on the strong winds Armel loses 6.7k each 4 hours he will arrive at the ridge with an advantage of 31nm. If he loses 1k per hour he will arrive there with an advantage of 54nm.

The best strategy would be to arrive there with several hours advantage but without taking any risk so I believe Armel is not going to try to match Alex's speed but will try to control Alex's gains to not more than 1,5k per hour. He will want to reach there with an advantage but without taking any risks with the boat.

For Alex it is the opposite, 2nd is only the first of the last and he will take any risk to be able to close on Armel. That's a great finale with an Alex in fire against an icy Armel that is controlling the situation and risking as less as he can, preferring to solve the situation where he has little risks of damaging the boat ...providing he reaches there with some hours advantage.

Another great racer, a F1 one, Fangio used to say that the best racer is the one that wins with the less diference to his adversary (saving the mechanic and not taking unnecessary risks). It seems Chacal is a follower.

[JPA Cate]

Yes, Polux, re your post #365, and how many times his cars fell apart on the victory lap! The man had a genius for getting all out of them that they had to give.

Ann

[admiralslater]

Regarding the limited # of foils allowed I wonder if it would be possible to have a symmetrical foil that could be used on either tack which might allow for a dagger board . and perhaps we might see the keel being used for leeway mitigation once more and the foils as a wetted surface reduction tool. Lots of possibilities

[Pelagic]

I think the next evolution in the foils will be the ability to rotate a shape that is more multifunctional for different conditions

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think the next evolution in the foils will be the ability to rotate a shape that is more multifunctional for different conditions

Class rules will probably limit foils with moving/controllable elevators/control surfaces. The cost will escalate so quickly otherwise.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by Pelagic

I think the next evolution in the foils will be the ability to rotate a shape that is more multifunctional for different conditions

That is clever. Yes I can see it working. But I don't know if they are using part of the foil as DSS system and in that case they would have to abandon that. I don't see anything on the rules that forbid that.

[admiralslater]

Originally Posted by Polux

That is clever. Yes I can see it working. But I don't know if they are using part of the foil as DSS system and in that case they would have to abandon that. I don't see anything on the rules that forbid that.

I imagine that DSS means displacement something or other .Down to 85 miles at 11 gmt + 5

[Polux]

Big news on the vendee globe: Alex, on the relentless pursuit of Armel, had beaten the 24 hours solo record for monohulls that is now 536,81nm.

Even so Armel remains imperturbable, controlling the race, going slightly slower, taking care of the boat and losing few miles.

He is well inside those figures I had given regarding the needed advance to win the race from that low ridge with little wind on North of France.

Since they went full speed, 31 hours ago, Alex was able to win 1k per hour. It remains about 20 hours till they they get out of the stronger winds and arrive to that ridge and to upwind sailing in weak winds.

If Armel keep controlling the advantage of Alex the way he has done on the past 31 hours, they will arrive there separated by 58nm, that on the wind conditions they have ahead should correspond to a 5 to 7 hour advantage.

If so I believe that Armel will not let that advantage diminish significantly on those conditions, much less allow Alex to pass on the two days and a bit that will remain.

This has been a great race and these two have been battling as champions with Alex doing his role, putting as much pressure as he can over Armel, taking risks and sailing on the limit, winning as much as he can and Armel resisting that pressure and controlling his adversary.

Regarding that record and the absolute performance I think we can say that Alex's boat is probably the fastest IMOCA in strong winds. It was not by accident that it was his boat the only one that was already very close to beat that record on the race. It also means that Alex loves to sail at high speed and is probably the best doing so.

The previous record was only 2nm shorter and that means also that these boats on foils, in what regards absolute speed are not significantly faster than the previous ones without these foils and that comes a bit as a surprise, but the truth is that those foils are not yet in conditions of taking the full pressure of a boat sailing with high winds and they have to take them in on those conditions. If one abuses the foils on these conditions he will break them.
https://gis.ee/vg/

[Polux]

Originally Posted by admiralslater

I imagine that DSS means displacement something or other .Down to 85 miles at 11 gmt + 5

DSS means Dynamic Stability System. If you want to know more about it I suggest to go to my blog an put "DSS" on the search engine. You will have severalposts with information about that.

[DeepFrz]

Wow, new 24hr distance record. What a feat. And if anyone thinks that Armel is sitting back his average speed in that 24 hrs. was just under 1kn less than Alex's. I think they are both going balls to the wall as the Brits would say. They are still sailing at high speed with Alex just a bit faster than Armel.

[Suijin]

Just watched the most recent Thomson video. He seems remarkably energetic and upbeat despite self-reported lack of sleep, but I suppose knowing he is only three days out from the finish and has a chance, however slim, of overtaking Armel has him pumping adrenaline at this point.