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Old 13-07-2016, 09:31   #31
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

A thought just occurred. Is it possible, after several months in the water, that the timbers have swelled enough for her to have gained a foot or so in length?
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:31   #32
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

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Originally Posted by Viking Sailor View Post
Seriously, 35 meters equals 114.829 feet. That is 2 inches less then the 115 feet stated in the above reference.

I mean - everyone knows how sailors tend to exaggerate the length of things.

As an example, my boat length varies from 34 feet for slip fees to 37 feet for a live aboard boat. It's all about how the measurement is done.

So again I suggest that a remeasure is the best solution to this non-problem.
Indeed, my boat is 39 feet, 11 inches on deck for tax purposes now defunct, and 41 feet, 10 inches with the bowsprit and probably even longer with the windvane and transom-hung rudder.

This means I can be rigged with 10 watt (or equivalent) nav lights. It surprises people when I light up the 25 watt Aquasignals.

As for the longboat, the Seaway has been thwarting Viking invasions since the late '50s. We in Toronto sleep easier.
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Old 13-07-2016, 09:46   #33
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Something isn't adding up. I thought they only needed a pilot when entering and leaving a port. While tied up, they shouldn't need one and when doing a passage, I didn't think they need one.


Still seems like the ship owner dropped the ball as it clearly meets the requirement and should have gotten an official in writing exemption.
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:02   #34
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

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This strange stuff happens all the time. I know someone who was forced to pay duty on a canadian built sailboat upon entering the US despite the NAFTA zone specifically stating that goods built in either Canada or the US can be imported tarrif free!
Actually that is not what NAFTA says. NAFTA allows preferential duty for goods made and sold in the NAFTA zone, not duty free. I have imported goods made in Mexico and paid duty, just much less than the same thing made elsewhere.

Check https://www.usitc.gov/ for duties on everything from apples to zebras including duty rates based on the country of origin, dumping duties, countries with GSP, etc.
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:55   #35
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

I hope a current member that has vacation time or close to retirement will offer their time and service as a worthy deed helpful to all asail and ashore
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Old 13-07-2016, 10:58   #36
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

I'm not arguing or disagreeing with anyone here, lots of good points. But one might think Tall Ships America would have dealt with this kind of thing many times before? I love their "races" and - especially - the festivals! It is a truly beautiful thing.

It just seems that they would have encountered issues and be in touch with the various localities for their global excursions? Surely they could point out to the politicians the millions of dollars that are being "left behind" in the cities where these magnificent ships dock and invite a hungry public to devour the history and glory of these fine craft?

Just my two cents.
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:02   #37
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

How is the length measured? If from the rudder post (as is done in Canada) then she might be less then from the stern if in fact the rudder is not hung from the stern.
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Old 13-07-2016, 11:44   #38
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

"Foreign-flag vessels over 300 gross tons are required to carry pilots while transitting the St. Lawrence Seaway / Great Lakes System. In addition, many vessel operators voluntarily request pilotage when transitting unfamiliar waters and ports".

http://www.lakespilots.com

The St Lawrence Seaway is governed by both nations and has some interesting regulations. The idea that only the US has bizarre union/gov't rules is simply ridiculous.
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Old 13-07-2016, 12:23   #39
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

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"Foreign-flag vessels over 300 gross tons are required to carry pilots while transitting the St. Lawrence Seaway / Great Lakes System. In addition, many vessel operators voluntarily request pilotage when transitting unfamiliar waters and ports".

http://www.lakespilots.com

The St Lawrence Seaway is governed by both nations and has some interesting regulations. The idea that only the US has bizarre union/gov't rules is simply ridiculous.
Crazy,
Then why did they not encounter any problems when they previously sailed/docked in Iceland, Greenland and Newfoundland/Labrador? And it was only when they reached the Great Lakes, on the US side, that this became a problem? However, please forget the politics-- go to the previously posted link to sign a petition to permit their journey to continue as planned. If we can't get help here, where else should we go . . . an RV Forum???? Good luck and safe sailing.
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Old 13-07-2016, 13:47   #40
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

They can get to Lake Superior without entering the US. The Welland is in Canada and we have our own lock at the Sioux to go into Superior.
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Old 13-07-2016, 13:56   #41
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

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Crazy,
Then why did they not encounter any problems when they previously sailed/docked in Iceland, Greenland and Newfoundland/Labrador? And it was only when they reached the Great Lakes, on the US side, that this became a problem? However, please forget the politics-- go to the previously posted link to sign a petition to permit their journey to continue as planned. If we can't get help here, where else should we go . . . an RV Forum???? Good luck and safe sailing.
I can only say the Great Lakes has their set of rules which doesn't even extend to the Maritime Provinces. Freighters must use a pilot the entire time they are on the Lakes, not just thru the locks.

I certainly hope the vessel gets thru - it will be in my neck of the lakes in early August.
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Old 13-07-2016, 14:15   #42
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

What the exact length of the boat really is, seems to be fundamental to this discussion.
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Old 13-07-2016, 14:47   #43
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

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the historic passage of an authentic Viking Longship, Draken Harald Hafargre, who has sailed from Norway to Iceland, Greenland, Labrador, Newfoundland and, is now, in the Great Lakes.
Nothing historic about it. Unless you believe the vikings portaged their 115 foot longboat around Niagra Falls?

Fiztcarraldo, great movie!
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Old 13-07-2016, 15:04   #44
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

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Exactly. Please read the background before making accusations. They did their due diligence. They were told they'd be OK, only to have the bureaucratic story change once they got here. Could they have done more? Probably. But they were operating on information provided to them from the Great Lakes Pilotage Authorities, which any reasonable person would expect to have provided accurate information.

As for travelling up the Canadian side, the St. Lawrence Seaway, which includes the Great Lakes, is jointly administered by Canada and the USA. There'll be no sneaking along the Canadian side -- especially not in that boat.
This is related to an issue i've commented on in many other threads. As a frequent water border crosser I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of Canadian and US water LEO's and border cops do not know or understand their own rules. I've gotten to the point where I carry a copy of United States Code of Federal Regulations and the Canada Shipping Act at my helm.

It is a delicate process showing these people that they are wrong and being able to prove it on the spot. It would have been a big help if they'd had it in writing ..... hindsight.
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Old 13-07-2016, 15:12   #45
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Re: Unbridled Stupidity and the Viking Longship

Part of the issue appears to me to be with the decision to register the ship as a commercial cargo vessel.

Bad choice.

If they'd listed it as a pleasure craft it wouldn't have the same rules...
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