Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-03-2011, 08:25   #1
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Pirates Get Easy Treatment by US Government

Recently the US Justice department announced that a federal grand Jury had returned indictments charging 13 hijackers of the S/V Quest with piracy and kidnapping, but no murder charges. Neither of the existing indictments carries the death penalty. The piracy charge is simple piracy as defined in Title 18 part 1651 of the US code. This charge carries a life imprisonment term. The pirates clearly could have been charged in addition with violation of Title 18 part 2280 which deals with murder on a US flagged vessel. This statute does provide for the death penalty. So far there is no explanation as to why charges under this statute were not sought.

US jury indicts 14 in fatal pirate attack on yacht - Boston.com

United States Code: Title 18,1651. Piracy under law of nations | LII / Legal Information Institute

United States Code: Title 18,2280. Violence against maritime navigation | LII / Legal Information Institute

One has to wonder if the US government puts a higher value on the life of Somali Pirates or if it puts a lower value on the lives of "rich yachters". Apparently the killing of 4 yachters does not merit even one charge of murder. I guess we can't expect that the US government will charge anyone with murder for killing us as long as it is done on the high seas.
__________________

__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 08:34   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Are we absolutely sure the victims were killed by the pirates and not by "friendly fire"? If not, how do you determine who pulled the trigger? I have no idea if autopsies were performed to determine this so how would we know? I am just playing the devils advocate here but I think it is a valid question.
__________________

__________________
perchance is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 08:41   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Are we absolutely sure the victims were killed by the pirates and not by "friendly fire"? If not, how do you determine who pulled the trigger? I have no idea if autopsies were performed to determine this so how would we know? I am just playing the devils advocate here but I think it is a valid question.

The statute does not require that the person pull the trigger, simply participating in a hijacking that results in the death of a person qualifies one for the death penalty. It is similar to the concept of felony murder. If a person dies during the commision of a felony, the person(s) commiting that felony are guilty of murder. It does not even require that the death be a victim of the predicate felony. If multiple people are commiting the felony and one of them dies as a result, then the other people involved in the predicate felony can be charged with murder.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 08:59   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

I would think that in the absence of overwhelming evidence the U.S. justice system would have no choice but to follow its own rules. After all the tenet that you are presumed innocent applies to all with the exception of those incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay. I realize that this decision may leave a bitter taste in the mouths of many but that is the price you pay for living in a free and democratic society. I for one wouldn't want it any other way.
__________________
perchance is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 09:15   #5
Vendor
 
witzgall's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Eastern Shore, MD
Boat: Camper Nicholson 44 Ketch
Posts: 1,775
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

I have two thoughts on why they might not be charging them with murder.

1. A deal, where the Somalis provide information in return for their lives.

2. A conviction is a forgone conclusion, and they don't want to antagonize the pirates still out there.

Actually, a third, is that they still building up information on the case before coming out with the third charge.

Chris
__________________
witzgall is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 09:18   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
I would think that in the absence of overwhelming evidence the U.S. justice system would have no choice but to follow their own rules. After all the tenet that you are presumed innocent applies to all with the exception of those incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay. I realize that this decision may leave a bitter taste in mouths of many but that is the price you pay for living in a free and democratic society. I for one wouldn't want it any other way.

Are you seriously suggesting that the Quest was not hijacked by the people caught on board and that the crew was not killed? In a free and democartic society we are supposed to be governed by the rule of law and Title 18, 2280 is the law. I was not at all suggesting any extra judicial detention such as Guantanamo. You might notice I was not complaining about the lack of conviction of the pirates, but the lack of charges. You might also notice that the statute does not require the death penalty but only allows for the possibility. The fact is that under the law these individuals should also be charged with the death of four of their own in addition to the crew of the quest yet they were not charged with any death.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 09:32   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

I am not suggesting anything nor am I in any way claiming to have legal knowledge of this particular case. As I said at the outset I am merely playing the devils advocate. Those of you who have a better understanding of the U. S. legal system would be more qualified than I to comment.
__________________
perchance is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 09:56   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
hummingway's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gabriola Island & Victoria, British Columbia
Boat: Cooper 416 Honeysuckle
Posts: 6,933
Images: 5
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

If one more post strays this topic will be shut down. Please stay on topic and respect the rules of the forum.
__________________
“We are the universe contemplating itself” - Carl Sagan

hummingway is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 09:58   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
I am just playing the devils advocate here but I think it is a valid question.

What was the question?
__________________
kenny chaos is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 10:02   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Maple Bay BC
Boat: Cal 2-29
Posts: 31
Images: 1
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
I would think that in the absence of overwhelming evidence the U.S. justice system would have no choice but to follow its own rules. After all the tenet that you are presumed innocent applies to all with the exception of those incarcerated in Guantanamo Bay. I realize that this decision may leave a bitter taste in the mouths of many but that is the price you pay for living in a free and democratic society. I for one wouldn't want it any other way.
If perchance you had been the victim here, you may have taken a different view.
__________________
nylajo is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 10:04   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Captain Bill's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat
Boat: Endeavourcat Sailcat 44
Posts: 2,313
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

I have written the US Department of Justice and asked why the pirates were not charged under Title 18, 2280. I will share their response assuming I actually get one.
__________________
Captain Bill is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 10:04   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Erie Canal between Rochester & Buffalo
Boat: 1970 23' O'day pop-top
Posts: 471
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by nylajo View Post
If perchance you had been the victim here, you may have taken a different view.
I agree; if he was killed, he'd think differently about it.
__________________
kenny chaos is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 10:08   #13
cruiser

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 205
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by perchance View Post
Are we absolutely sure the victims were killed by the pirates and not by "friendly fire"? If not, how do you determine who pulled the trigger? I have no idea if autopsies were performed to determine this so how would we know? I am just playing the devils advocate here but I think it is a valid question.
This post clearly is intended to stir up trouble. I cannot see it in any other light.

Deaths of a ships crew as the result of piracy is murder. Period. End of report.
__________________
Noname1 is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 10:09   #14
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 586
Images: 3
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

It could be that the pirates who did the murdering were the ones that were found dead. As I remember the incident, there were a couple of dead pirates as well as the crew. Perhaps it has been determined by those who know the details that the remainder of these mutts were not culpable enough to spend the extensive time and money it takes to seek the death penalty. In our prisons they will get clean clothes, a place to sleep, a TV, medical attention, and a safer place than their home country. That's probably why we saw the last one convicted walking out of court with a big smile on his face. Sad.
__________________
smurphny is offline   Reply
Old 15-03-2011, 10:11   #15
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: ontario canada
Boat: grampian 26
Posts: 1,743
Re: Pirates get easy treatment by US Government

Quote:
Originally Posted by nylajo View Post
If perchance you had been the victim here, you may have taken a different view.
I'll let you know when I get to "The other side".
__________________

__________________
perchance is offline   Reply
Closed Thread

Tags
government

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blister Treatment galleyslave Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 18-02-2011 15:28
Stinky Teak Treatment ? deano Construction, Maintenance & Refit 1 25-10-2010 16:08
Canvas Treatment Inkwell Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 04-08-2007 13:31



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 19:34.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.