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Old 18-06-2017, 01:07   #1
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Hokule'a

Hokule'a successfully returned to Hawaii after circumnavigating the earth , without any modern navigational aids , only sun stars and the sea .
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Old 18-06-2017, 17:48   #2
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Re: Hokule'a

Yes, pretty cool, eh?

Do you have a link to their route?

Ann
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Old 18-06-2017, 18:44   #3
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Re: Hokule'a

We met up with them in St Helena. Nice guys. They change crew from time to time but I think the skipper and definitely the navigator did the whole trip. Not many have the old navigation skills. The boat itself is so traditional that it looked really funny at night in the anchorage, to see the crew moving about with head lights!
There was a very well equiped support ketch that sailed about 5 miles behind them.
Great achievement!
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Old 18-06-2017, 19:22   #4
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Re: Hokule'a

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Originally Posted by VirtualVagabond View Post
We met up with them in St Helena. Nice guys. They change crew from time to time but I think the skipper and definitely the navigator did the whole trip. Not many have the old navigation skills. The boat itself is so traditional that it looked really funny at night in the anchorage, to see the crew moving about with head lights!
There was a very well equiped support ketch that sailed about 5 miles behind them.
Great achievement!
Vic
Luckyfish featured it in their st Helena video , very interesting boat , people and expidition ,, ( tho they never mentioned the mother goose faithfully keeping watch from behind !! )
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Old 18-06-2017, 21:13   #5
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Hokule'a

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Hokule'a successfully returned to Hawaii after circumnavigating the earth , without any modern navigational aids , only sun stars and the sea .

So amazing to read about the Hokule'a. It almost wasn't able to make it in because we've had pretty big swells. I am in Honolulu but you couldn't even get close enough to get a good look. If we weren't leaving this week we would have taken the boat out to get a good view. They closed the Ala Wai Channel leading in to the port where it will be. All of Hawaii is so supportive of the Hokule'a, its journey and meaning. Even many businesses on Oahu are closed for its arrival too.

Makes sailing with all the latest gadgets seem lazy. Though I'm not sure I could get used to just sea water showers even with the special soap (it's said to make sea water feel refreshing).

Here was its route.
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https://www.google.com/amp/khon2.com...ulea-home/amp/
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Old 18-06-2017, 22:58   #6
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Re: Hokule'a

Do we know what the interactions with ketch were?

Ann
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Old 18-06-2017, 23:53   #7
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Re: Hokule'a

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Do we know what the interactions with ketch were?

Ann
On the day they left St Helena the anchorage was in the lee and the cliffs are massive. But clear of the anchorage there was a reasonable southeaster, so the ketch towed them out.
I don't think the ketch would have given any greater assistance than that on occassions, and I don't feel it conflicts with their objective which was to use traditional navigation to circumnavigate. If the idea in using a traditional vessel was to go totally unassisted that would be more of an issue. I would think they had other 21st Century pressures, like needing to keep reasonably on schedule for crew changes and sponsor commitments. The boat would have to have some modern gear like nav lights and a vhf. I know they cooked with propane because we were all having a problem with getting a fitting to refill. We eventually fabricated one but I seem to remember their ketch had a couple of extra tanks that would see them through to Brazil.
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:20   #8
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Re: Hokule'a

Exactly what does "traditional navigation" entail? I have a general idea of how they navigated in the island Pacific, with the ability to interpret wave patterns and knowing which stars to point at to reach which islands. This priceless info was passed down from generation to generation by verbal means and "apprenticeships" with experienced navigators. All very cool...

But how do they apply these skills when it comes to waters that they have never sailed? When their nifty stick charts ran out of coverage, how did they carry on? These modern guys had the advantage of knowing generally what the rest of the world looks like. Did they have modern charts covering their route? If not, how in the world did they know how to reach, say, Nova Scotia, a land totally unknown to their ancestors?

I'm impressed by their voyaging, but would like to know the nitty gritty of their methods, and how "traditional" they really were.

Jim
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:39   #9
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Re: Hokule'a

That thought crossed my mind too, particularly with the stars of the Southern hemisphere to go by.
I would guess they'd have the benefit of knowing Australia was coming up and how to use the southern cross. Same for Africa.
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Old 19-06-2017, 00:45   #10
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Re: Hokule'a

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Hokule'a successfully returned to Hawaii after circumnavigating the earth , without any modern navigational aids , only sun stars and the sea .
Ferdinand Magellan would not be impressed.
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Old 19-06-2017, 17:08   #11
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Re: Hokule'a

We spent some time with the navigator and crew while they were in Tahiti and followed them to the Taputaputea marae in Raiatea. It was this site that is considered the most significant scared place in all of Polynesia. Big Mana in this place!

The navigators used only the stars, sun, birds and currents. traditional methods taught by Mau from the Caroline Islands. Now they are a number of younger navigators that have accompanied the boat. In additional Hikianalia (a traditional Cook island sailing canoe) sailed down from Hawaii to meet them at Point Venus in Tahiti. Also using traditional navigation. A huge welcome at PT Venus that attracted tens of thousands of Tahitians.

The support vessel was used to tow the canoe in and out of port(when needed) and as a safety vessel in case there problems or injuries.

Honored to be one of the thousands to greet them and welcome them to Tahiti(Linda) and Raiatea(Chuck and Linda)


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Old 19-06-2017, 22:13   #12
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Re: Hokule'a

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Exactly what does "traditional navigation" entail? I have a general idea of how they navigated in the island Pacific, with the ability to interpret wave patterns and knowing which stars to point at to reach which islands. This priceless info was passed down from generation to generation by verbal means and "apprenticeships" with experienced navigators. All very cool...

But how do they apply these skills when it comes to waters that they have never sailed? When their nifty stick charts ran out of coverage, how did they carry on? These modern guys had the advantage of knowing generally what the rest of the world looks like. Did they have modern charts covering their route? If not, how in the world did they know how to reach, say, Nova Scotia, a land totally unknown to their ancestors?

I'm impressed by their voyaging, but would like to know the nitty gritty of their methods, and how "traditional" they really were.

Jim
While I don't know much about Hokule'a, since I've not sailed on her, I can say a thing or two about Carolinian navigation, which is the foundation for what the Hokule'a crew is doing today.

Carolinian navigators do not use stick charts. All of their knowledge is stored in their minds. They are trained from an early age to use their memory, rather than books or computers, to maintain their knowledge. Daily songs and chants that have historically belonged to the clan build this knowledge quickly. Mau Piailug broke the tradition of keeping the knowledge in the clan to share it with the first crew of the Hokule'a.

Carolinian traditional navigation has seen an unbroken line of navigators completing the Po ceremony up until today. We had 6 canoes from Satawal visit Saipan in 2014, led by Tobias Urapai (Mau's cousin), who was functionally blind at the time. Each canoe was navigated by one of Tobias' apprentices.

In long talks with Tobias and others, they demonstrate clear and extraordinarily detailed understanding of vast swathes of the ocean, thousands of miles from our home here in Micronesia. This includes geography, currents, animals, temperatures, and more. Star knowledge is similarly detailed. Keep in mind that this is a living practice.

There are no instruments, charts (stick or otherwise), electronics or anything else that does not come from the island aboard the canoes. They make their way independently, usually getting to their destination well before any modern craft. This is due to the fast nature of the canoe design, as well as the ability of the navigator to better understand the forces around them by virtue of superior intrinsic knowledge and powers of observation, without distractions.

Next April, we plan to sail to Satawal with Tobias' son to visit the family. Our return to Saipan will see two new canoes heading back with us with new navigators leading the way. We'll get back home well after the time they arrive...
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Old 19-06-2017, 23:00   #13
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Re: Hokule'a

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Originally Posted by hafa View Post
While I don't know much about Hokule'a, since I've not sailed on her, I can say a thing or two about Carolinian navigation, which is the foundation for what the Hokule'a crew is doing today.

Carolinian navigators do not use stick charts. All of their knowledge is stored in their minds. They are trained from an early age to use their memory, rather than books or computers, to maintain their knowledge. Daily songs and chants that have historically belonged to the clan build this knowledge quickly. Mau Piailug broke the tradition of keeping the knowledge in the clan to share it with the first crew of the Hokule'a.

Carolinian traditional navigation has seen an unbroken line of navigators completing the Po ceremony up until today. We had 6 canoes from Satawal visit Saipan in 2014, led by Tobias Urapai (Mau's cousin), who was functionally blind at the time. Each canoe was navigated by one of Tobias' apprentices.

In long talks with Tobias and others, they demonstrate clear and extraordinarily detailed understanding of vast swathes of the ocean, thousands of miles from our home here in Micronesia. This includes geography, currents, animals, temperatures, and more. Star knowledge is similarly detailed. Keep in mind that this is a living practice.

There are no instruments, charts (stick or otherwise), electronics or anything else that does not come from the island aboard the canoes. They make their way independently, usually getting to their destination well before any modern craft. This is due to the fast nature of the canoe design, as well as the ability of the navigator to better understand the forces around them by virtue of superior intrinsic knowledge and powers of observation, without distractions.

Next April, we plan to sail to Satawal with Tobias' son to visit the family. Our return to Saipan will see two new canoes heading back with us with new navigators leading the way. We'll get back home well after the time they arrive...
This is all impressive, and I salute their abilities. But your explanation does not cover how they used the oral traditions, etc, to navigate waters unknown to them or their ancestors... crossing the Atlantic to a specific landfall on the other side. I just don't understand this.

Other comment: if they are so fast, how did the chase boat keep up within 5 miles 24/7 as reported?

I'm not dissing their accomplishments, rather I'm trying to understand how they were managed. The above discourse leaves me still in the dark.

Jim
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Old 20-06-2017, 00:22   #14
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Re: Hokule'a

[QUOTE=Jim Cate; I'm not dissing their accomplishments, rather I'm trying to understand how they were managed. The above discourse leaves me still in the dark.

Jim[/QUOTE]

I'd like to understand more too.
I remember the now late David Lewis (first circum in a cat; Icebird etc) did a lot of research on this kind of navigation. I suspect he would have tried it, and written a book on it, and got National Geographic on board...
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Old 20-06-2017, 00:32   #15
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Re: Hokule'a

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
Exactly what does "traditional navigation" entail? I have a general idea of how they navigated in the island Pacific, with the ability to interpret wave patterns and knowing which stars to point at to reach which islands. This priceless info was passed down from generation to generation by verbal means and "apprenticeships" with experienced navigators. All very cool...

But how do they apply these skills when it comes to waters that they have never sailed? When their nifty stick charts ran out of coverage, how did they carry on? These modern guys had the advantage of knowing generally what the rest of the world looks like. Did they have modern charts covering their route? If not, how in the world did they know how to reach, say, Nova Scotia, a land totally unknown to their ancestors?

I'm impressed by their voyaging, but would like to know the nitty gritty of their methods, and how "traditional" they really were.

Jim
It's raised my curiosity as well. I've just picked up a couple of books on Polynesian navigation and I'll see if it does anymore than tease.
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