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**Cotemar** · 22-03-2017, 12:01

Oceandeep,

Thank you for coming forward and telling your story.
No worries, as there are many more cruisers that have gotten this DOG BITE.

1) This guy and his website is very misleading, unethical and predatory.

2) Why would anyone DUPLICATE a government web site?

3) Why does this guy use a restaurant in West Virginia on his letterhead as a return address, when he lives and does business in California ?

4) Why is this guy sending the letter from California when the Real National Vessel Documentation Center is in West Virginia ?

5) Why is this guy sending a letter to your home address before the REAL USCG Certificate of Documentation Renewal is sent to your home.

For those of you that feel that the web site is not misleading, unethical and predatory.
Just Private Message (PM) the cruisers that did this by accident and then tried to get there money back.

Just read the stories and you will see how bad it can get to request a refund.

Legitimate companies do not do this bad behavior to customers.
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wingless · 22-03-2017, 12:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

The fake address return address on the letter is:
Hugh Baby's Restaurant
62 Morrill Way, Morgantown, WV 26505

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingless

Is the concern about the envelope return address being 62 Morrill Way, Suite 311-1001, Morgantown, WV? That address belongs to PostNet, so it is probably for post office box number 1001.

A possible legitimate explanation is that they outsource this to a postal service, instead of using trained resources for paperwork.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

3) Why does this guy use a restaurant in West Virginia on his letterhead as a return address, when he lives and does business in California ?

This statement is still incorrect.

The return address in the OP envelope image is for a PostNet post office box, not a restaurant.

**Cotemar** · 22-03-2017, 13:53

wingless,

I guess at this point, knowing what you know now.
Would you use this service ?

The main reason that this is such a great boating community here on the CF, is that we all look after each other.

If we can save you $49 this year and maybe another $49 next year on your USCG Certificate of Documentation Renewal than all will be good, Yes?
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wingless · 22-03-2017, 14:21

There is no hesitation for me to stand behind every statement I made in this topic. There have been highly disparaging and highly inaccurate statements made, but not by me.

IMO, it is inappropriate to use: "fake"; "robbing"; "sucked-in"; "scam"; "beware"; "rapist"; "steals"; "scammer"; "taking refund checks"; "misleading"; "unethical"; "predatory"; "not legitimate" and "bad behavior" because one part of a person's business charges a fee to provide a service.

There has not been any evidence of any misrepresentation or fraud by Captain John Soria or by U.S. Marine Surveyors, Inc., but they have been called-out by name for fraudulent conduct.

IMO all these statements could / should be considered libel and have NO place in this forum.

Jason Flare · 22-03-2017, 14:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

wingless,

I guess at this point, knowing what you know now.
Would you use this service ?

The main reason that this is such a great boating community here on the CF, is that we all look after each other.

If we can save you $49 this year and maybe another $49 next year on your USCG Certificate of Documentation Renewal than all will be good, Yes?
.
.

Here's how it went with me:

We're out cruising. Our daughter called us. "You got a renewal thing in the mail for the documentation on the boat" she said.

"How much is it?" I said.

"$75.00"

"It's fake. When the real one comes in it will be for $26.00 and it will say it's either from the Coast Guard or the US Coast Guard Vessel Documentation Center in Falling Waters, West Virginia."

If someone were truly scamming me they would be calling themselves the Coast Guard, they would be useing a Falling Waters address, they would be charging me $26.00 and they wouldn't be renewing my documentation.

Show me where the guy in the OP can be charged with mail fraud because that's the big charge to levy on someone.

I get that he fooled some people but my takeaway from this is that someone can actually make bank on American's lack of reading comprehension.

**Cotemar** · 22-03-2017, 14:38

Wingless,

Just be sure to let us know how your refund goes.

Copyright 2017 U.S. VESSEL DOCUMENTATION | All Rights Reserved. U.S. Vessel Documentation is NOT the U.S. Coast Guard or the National Vessel Documentation Center; we are a third party agency that handles USCG Documentation processing to NVDC.

Jason Flare · 22-03-2017, 14:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cotemar

Wingless,

Just be sure to let us know how your refund goes.

Copyright 2017 U.S. VESSEL DOCUMENTATION | All Rights Reserved. U.S. Vessel Documentation is NOT the U.S. Coast Guard or the National Vessel Documentation Center; we are a third party agency that handles USCG Documentation processing to NVDC.

Did you fall for this and send them $75.00 Cotemar?

**Cotemar** · 22-03-2017, 15:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Flare

Did you fall for this and send them $75.00 Cotemar?

No, I just got 2 of these letters in the mail Yesterday Mar, 21-2017

This guy must of thought it was important enough to send me 2.

I did my homework last night to understand why something was WRONG with these 2 letters, as both of these letters were sent from Chino Hills, California 91709 and we always get our Renewal notices from Falling Waters, Virginia 25419

Then I went into the website to see how to RENEW and then the RED FLASHING lights went on.

The more I dug, the more upset I was that there are people like this in the world that work, so hard to do us harm.

Someone is always trying to Fleece us boater out of a buck, so I figure I would post the info. that I had to get it out there.

The Information may save some money at lease for boater going forward, as I believe thousands of these kinds of letters must be going out this time of year.

This renewal used to be free 2 years ago, so there was no incentive to fleece money from any boaters.

Now that MONEY is involved, we maybe seeing more of this.

Jason Flare · 22-03-2017, 15:39

Cotemar, I'm glad you dug into this and read the fine print and didn't spend more than you needed to.

Posting here that you figured this out, and how you figured this out, is a great service.

bioandy · 22-03-2017, 15:42

Capitalism at its best!
Burns me up too.

clownfishsydney · 22-03-2017, 16:32

The same thing applies for anyone wanting to get an ESTA (visa waiver) to enter the USA. The proper cost is US$14 but there are numerous sites that charge up to US$75 for it. All they do is copy your information into the real web site, pay the money and keep the rest. You get the ESTA and are none the wiser.

Always look at the address of the web site, if it is real it will have .gov in it.

delmag · 22-03-2017, 17:26

i got one of these letters, too. i consider it a fraud because the intent was clearly to simulate an official document from the us coast guard. it was very carefully worded to avoid CLAIMING to BE the coast guard. the author of the letter doesn't offer a service for a fee. instead, the letters suggests that it comes from an official agency of the gov't and that a fee is required to be sent. yes, it is possible to inspect the details closely and determine that the letter did not come from the actual gov't agency. but the fact that it is necessary to do so, to me, is an indication that it is a deception. if it were NOT a deceptive practice, it would not be required that one examine the letter for legitimacy. it would be CLEAR. "This is our service, if you choose to use it, this is how to do so." so, in my opinion, while it may not be technically illegal, it is incredibly slimy and unethical. what i find surprising about the whole thing is that people actually defend this sort of behavior. this is a business model based on misrepresentation and deceit. sure, caveat emptor and free market and all that but, according to my moral compass this is wrong. just because it is not illegal, doesn't mean that it is right. i've seen scams (yes i said scams) like this that specifically target the elderly who may no longer have the ability to distinguish between a letter that LOOKS like it came from the coast guard and one that actually DID come from the coasties. i wouldn't be able to look myself in the mirror if i had to use these types of "marketing" tactics to make a living.

MoorOrLess · 22-03-2017, 22:13

I am not familiar with privacy laws in the USA, but would be concerned over how this company acquired the vessel's registration number, renewal date, owners name and address.
Did the USCG or insurance company sell such information? Did you agree to that information be sold or made available? Maybe it was purchased from Russia?