Abby Sunderland - The Debate

[Sabbatical II]

At the outset I have to say Abby has far more open ocean experience than I, so I ask real questions seeking to understand why, not to pass judgement on the event and what has transpired. My question is if she set off her EPIRB, we can presume that she judged that there was an iminent threat to the vessel and it was likely to sink. If the mast and rigging was cut away, was the vessel in immeadiate danger of sinking? Given that there can be significant personal risk to rescue crew (the French skipper fell overboard during the process) would it not have been more appropriate for Abby to risk going on deck to free the mast and rigging before setting off her EPIRB and transferring that risk to whatever boats maybe in the area. If there was no other major structural damage to the vessel (and we may find out that there was) would it not have been possible to sit out the storm after the mast was cut away and assess the situation and possible solutions when things settled down? Otherwise it seems to me that the EPIRB is a panic button and if used increasinglly as a panic button the sailing community will be seen as "crying wolf" eventually resulting in a less enthusiastic response from rescue authorities. That said, I'm glad she is well I and I hope I never have to make the decision that confronted her.

[slomotion]

Originally Posted by Get-a-Life

I've read some absolute crap on this thread but this must take the prize.

I'm guessing from someone who doesn't even know where either Australia or the Southern Ocean is?

The following is for your information:-
Winter - 1st June to end of August.
Spring - 1st September to end of November
Summer - 1st December to end of February
Autumn (Fall to you yanks) 1st March to end of May

If the above is incorrect, I highly suggest you write to my local politician (Lara Giddings) and tell her that I am very angry about paying for three extra weeks of heating bills.

I take it you blokes don't have solstices and equinoxes. Who knew?

I'm really not sure where Australia is, but I know the capital is Vienna.

[D&D]

Originally Posted by TaoJones

Abby will have been transported back to Reunion by June 21, the day winter officially arrives in the southern hemisphere. If she's still there that day, that will be her first experience of southern winter

Whether we call it winter or fall is really not important. The fact is we are now well-and-truly into the time of year when large and frequent low pressure systems go belting across the Southern Ocean with gale force (and above) winds building up seas across thousands of uninterrupted miles of fetch...and the icebergs are now roving much further north. It smacks of lack of forethought to choose to be out there at all (whether solo or irrespective of age) now.

[hummingway]

Originally Posted by Get-a-Life

I've read some absolute crap on this thread but this must take the prize.

I'm guessing from someone who doesn't even know where either Australia or the Southern Ocean is?

The following is for your information:-
Winter - 1st June to end of August.
Spring - 1st September to end of November
Summer - 1st December to end of February
Autumn (Fall to you yanks) 1st March to end of May

If the above is incorrect, I highly suggest you write to my local politician (Lara Giddings) and tell her that I am very angry about paying for three extra weeks of heating bills.

These aren't the solstice and equinox dates are they? I mean, when I lived in Edmonton I figured summer was noon til 1 August 1st (on a good year) but the summer solstice still fell in the vicinity of June 21st and the winter solstice fell on (or about) December 21st and aren't these dates reversed in the southern hemisphere?

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Jimske

Ditto. But. . . .hmmmm. . . this got me thinking. I should do a solo RTW in my Searunner 31. Why not? It is stable, doesn't leak, can't sink. What's the worse that could happen? I'll make sure I have a real good survival suit, a good satphone and a couple extra boxes of Cheesits (I do love Cheesits). They got to pick me up if something goes wrong! I may even get a ride in a fancy helicopter.

Maybe I will get to go on Jay Leno or even get invited to one of the reality TV shows!

Ya think the survival suit manufacturers will donate a suit? I can't afford one.

Maybe you should. But before you run off look and see how many RTW racers have been rescued by other racer because they were the only ones capable of getting there in time. This was no slam dunk. The SAR people have their limits as to fishing boats.

[surfingminniwinni]

Originally Posted by Get-a-Life

I've read some absolute crap on this thread but this must take the prize.

I'm guessing from someone who doesn't even know where either Australia or the Southern Ocean is?

The following is for your information:-
Winter - 1st June to end of August.
Spring - 1st September to end of November
Summer - 1st December to end of February
Autumn (Fall to you yanks) 1st March to end of May

If the above is incorrect, I highly suggest you write to my local politician (Lara Giddings) and tell her that I am very angry about paying for three extra weeks of heating bills.

Mate it seems like your holiday has done wonders for your nerves.

[TaoJones]

Originally Posted by Get-a-Life

I've read some absolute crap on this thread but this must take the prize.

I'm guessing from someone who doesn't even know where either Australia or the Southern Ocean is?

The following is for your information:-
Winter - 1st June to end of August.
Spring - 1st September to end of November
Summer - 1st December to end of February
Autumn (Fall to you yanks) 1st March to end of May

If the above is incorrect, I highly suggest you write to my local politician (Lara Giddings) and tell her that I am very angry about paying for three extra weeks of heating bills.

There's something almost comical about being insulted by someone who marks the seasons by the amount he's charged on his heating bills. I know it's unfair that the following information has been hidden from you in things called books, get-a-life, so here's a little primer for your enlightenment:

The Southern Hemisphere[1] is the half of a planet that is south of the equator—the word hemisphere (from the Greek word σφαιρα (sphere) +ημι(half)) literally means 'half ball'. It is also that half of the celestial sphere south of the celestial equator.
Earth's southern hemisphere contains all or parts of four continents (Antarctica, Australia, parts of South America and parts of Africa), four oceans (South Atlantic, Indian, South Pacific, and Southern) and most of Oceania. Several islands off the Asian continental mainland are also in the Southern Hemisphere. Due to the tilt of Earth's rotation relative to the Sun and the ecliptic plane, summer is December 21 to March 21 and winter is June 21 to September 22. September 22 is the vernal equinox and March 21 is the autumnal equinox.

From Southern Hemisphere - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Others on this thread from Down Under have bemoaned their taxes going toward rescuing Abby Sunderland, but they should be much more upset with what they're getting for their tax dollars when it comes to public education.

Or maybe it's all that wall-banging you've been doing with your head.

TaoJones

[Get-a-Life]

Tao,

Your continuing ignorance leaves me speechless.

[DeepFrz]

Also from Wikipedia

Australia

In Australia, the traditional aboriginal people defined the seasons by what was happening to the plants, animals and weather around them. This led to each separate tribal group having different seasons, some with up to eight seasons each year. However, most modern Aboriginal Australians follow either four or six meteorological
seasons, as do non-Aboriginal Australians.
The commonly followed dates are as follows: 1st day of March, June, September and December for the start of Autumn, Winter, Spring and Summer, respectively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season

[Doodles]

Originally Posted by Get-a-Life

Tao,

Your continuing ignorance leaves me speechless.

Great idea! I say go for it.

[surfingminniwinni]

While on the topic of weather.

In Australia we mark the start of a season from the start of a month and not the 21st or 22nd like in United states and other places. So winter goes from June the 1st through till August 31st, Spring 1st of september to 31st of November, Summer 1st of December till 28th (or 29th in a leap year) of February and Autumn. 1st of March till 31st of May. They never change regardless of weather conditions pretty silly sometimes but simple.(we like it that way downunder) Oh and by the way the northern Tropical areas do have seasons its called the wet and dry seasons the wet season believe it or not is the slightly warmer time of year and the dry the cooler it is because warm air can hold more moisture.

Hope that helps.

[Mariness]

Why such a fight over seasons? If the exact same thing happened under the exact same conditions, but in February, would it make an appreciable difference?
She encountered the conditions as they were; I doubt the Weather Gods much care what label we choose to give it.

[Bill Lee]

I like trees... What was this thread about again?
Cheers,
Bill

[Adelie]

Originally Posted by Bill Lee

I like trees... What was this thread about again?
Cheers,
Bill

My observation is that this thread is a debate between those who believe that Abby Sunderland was being couragous, adventurous and inspirational in trying to be the youngest person to sail non-stop and un-assisted around the world vs. those who believe that she was being foolish, money-grubbing and publicity seeking for doing the same.

I think both sides have missed the fact that their positions are not mutually exclusive.

[goldendays]

Well, in one and a half years she can be in a trench pitching grenades into no-man's-land and ducking for cover under heavy mortar fire. This is a country that has actively condoned such madness with its taxpayer dollars for its entire existence, yet can't wrap its head around the idea of somebody nearly the same age sailing around the world not for oil or the blood of terrorists, but simply because they can. Because they believe not in a cause or a vague idea, but in themselves, the only thing truly certain to each and every one of us in life.

If it's acceptable for parents to raise their children and "plant the seed" very young that they should join the military, what makes them any different than the Sunderland's supporting and encouraging their children to follow their dreams which are of equal levels of risk.

I should also note that I've seen far too many kids from the hood in my days who were thrown into the military because their parents didn't give two cusses about them. They let them roam the streets, do drugs, and get involved with gangs because they didn't want anything to do with raising them. These, my friend, are the parents who should be pursued for child abuse. Not only because they aren't actively raising their children, but because ultimately they were helping toss them into a great risk all the same.

I've looked at this debate from every frame of mind very deeply and I still can't see why it would be foolish for the parents to let their kid embark on this journey if they truly believed that she was well trained—just as parents sending their kids off to war would hope they were in recruit training.