3 ARC boats divert to Cape Verde with damage/injuries

[barnakiel]

IMHO the type of rudder does not count. All rudders have to be built to last and, in case of boats used for offshore, the rudder should be man enough to take a major bang or a minor grounding. I think there was a Delphia in this ARC too that had rudder issues. ARC site does not say what it was though. b.

[hellosailor]

I have more admiration for the Norsemen who went viking in longboats with steering boards. No rudder, no moving parts under the hull to break while inaccessible.

Even in a one-foot chop, I prefer to wear a wetsuit hood (neoprene) AND a double wool cap over that, because that's my head banging against the boat and damn, all that padding helps.

Between buoyancy control to stay down, and breathing, and juggling pieces, and banging the head or trying not to, even a simple short job like cutting a line off the prop can be exhausting. Wrenching around with rudder gudgeons in the open sea? Oh yeah, that kind of fun I can do without.

Boat bangs head, MOB is now unconcious, boat has no steerage, I sure hope there's a safety line around his waist. That doesn't foul and drown him all the faster.

[skipmac]

Originally Posted by DeepFrz

I like the cassette type spare rudder. Trying to attach a spade rudder into gudgeons in a rough sea could be quite difficult. Slipping the rudder into a cassette would be much easier and you could even make the cassette slip in to gudgeons on the stern. There should be a write up on this on the PAC web site.

Note: I call it cassette type but it has been quite a few years since I looked at the information. It might be called something else.

Never heard the term before but a little google search turned up a couple of articles about cassette rudders. Sounds like a slight variation on what I was thinking, just separating the rudder blade from the gudgeon and pintle and adding some sort of slot or bracket to hold the blade. Time to do a little further digging.

Thanks for the info.

PS

Pardon my ignorance but what's PAC (Political Action Committee, Pacific-Atlantic Cruisers)?

[downunder]

Originally Posted by sabray

So still what exactly do you get for your dollar. Not trying to pick a fight but looking for a contract that explains what it is purchased. So far I get a dinghy race weather routing maybe you also get companionship [ think that's illegal in most places], something Tribal, uhh sense if security [ can't be measured}.somewhere 400 thousand is spent. Please explain.

Clearly not your choice.

Having met a number of the ARC paticipants after their entry into Australia at Mackay, my hometown and a number of others involved in a NZPacific rally joining a rally is something I would consider in particular for easing the entry into some countries and lets say the Panamar canal. At Mackay a number of locals as well a a couple of the Great Barrier Reefs most experienced skippers spent 1/2 day with various participants briefing and offering suggestions as to their itinery.

No way I would attempt a full circumnavigation on the ARC's rushed itinery but many join on legs that suit.

Met some nice people, also.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Not your worry then BUT a lot of people evaluate the benefits and join up, CF members on this years ARC have done very well, maybe you do your sailing alone and privately well good for you!
Cheers

All sailing is done alone

[Kettlewell]

I almost hate to say this as it could lead to a big argument, but one advantage of cats offshore is that you have a backup rudder right there and working for you.

[downunder]

Originally Posted by Kettlewell

I almost hate to say this as it could lead to a big argument, but one advantage of cats offshore is that you have a backup rudder right there and working for you.

+2 Motors, alternator also.

[DeepFrz]

skipmac, I was referring to the Pacific Cup. I thought it was called PAC but I guess its referred to as Trans Pac.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

All sailing is done alone

Maybe get a friend George? Cat's are good!!!!!!

[aventuraplus]

Originally Posted by skipmac

This does look like a wild and crazy party, but was it $2000 worth of fun? I think might be able to have even more fun than this for less.

Just imagine how much whipped cream you can buy for half the money.

It is expensive but you are able to meet many other crew members but most of all: learn and exchange experience from each-other.
I was in Las Palmas a couple of days before the race started and after sailing the Lady Ann on a pré-ARC trip from Gibraltar to Madeira and Gran Canaria. The atmosphere is great and at the same time tense, just before the departure where sometimes good old "Murphy" comes on board.
The ARC is not a SAR. Other participants are able to help each other in case of a distress and when things would really go wrong.
And of course, I enjoy the pictures and reading the logs when sitting here at home in these cold winter days.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by georgetheleo

All sailing is done alone

Here's a Cat for you George, nice one too...

[barnakiel]

A very simple cassette rudder can be seen here: First 20 / First / Sailing Yachts - BENETEAU

Just a light (but rigid) alloy frame where the foil can be lowered or removed. Easy to build and probably deployable in nearly any weather.

I think in emergency kits the foil can be actually reused as a (shelf?) or something.

b.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Lagoon4us

Yes absolutely BUT in life we do things that may seen irrational to others because i guess we don't answer to others nor should we.

People enter ARC for some of the following:-
Security.
Companionship.
Fellowship.
Tribal feelings.
Security.
Fun.
Guidance.
Competition.
Organisation.

I guess the ARC (etc) just goes to show that cruising / simply messing around in boats is a broad church. and IMO that is a good thing .

Whilst I don't personally see any attraction in such things (mostly centred about me not being a people person - on the internet I can easily switch you f#ckers all off ) - but in the right circumstances I would not rule it out.

[Zanshin]

Lagoon4us - the hypothetical part is the "rub" in this case. It is easy for people to hypothesize about what others could have done and what sailing theory states can be done when losing steerage. I've trained using sail balance with the wheel locked on my boats and when in 15-20 knots of gusty winds with 2 meter swells (i.e. normal offshore conditions) self-steering is possible but difficult and the boat points generally in the right direction with swings of 30-40 degrees in each direction. With a rudder the boat becomes unsteerable but even there one could jury-rig an interior door with a spi pole to makeshift a rudder - except in a bigger boat the forces become very, very high. But even there all it takes is a wave higher than half the LWL to come from the side just as the boat is in a 30 degree swing phase and suddenly you roll. I'm sorry if I over-reacted, but I know that incredible feeling of helplessness when alone at sea with severe problems like this and when people who haven't had that happen state that a skipper should have been able to steer the boat (because they read it in a textbook) it irks me.
Just as an aside - this happened to me in a Jeanneau 43. Using the prop just turned the boat in wide 360s. I tried using the 10hp dinghy but in ocean waves that didn't work. I tried dragging all the lines I had with buckets and other drag devices behind me and then used the engine - that just turned bigger circles. If I had been fully offshore I would have tried a door and pole but I managed to contact shore to get a boat to tow - so I didn't master the situation. The tow was going to be cheaper than replacing cabinetry and all that I had to do was rock and roll for 24 hours; but anyone who has had this happen far offshore and improvised to successfully avert disaster deserves kudos and respect.

[Lagoon4us]

Originally Posted by Zanshin

Lagoon4us - the hypothetical part is the "rub" in this case. It is easy for people to hypothesize about what others could have done and what sailing theory states can be done when losing steerage. I've trained using sail balance with the wheel locked on my boats and when in 15-20 knots of gusty winds with 2 meter swells (i.e. normal offshore conditions) self-steering is possible but difficult and the boat points generally in the right direction with swings of 30-40 degrees in each direction. With a rudder the boat becomes unsteerable but even there one could jury-rig an interior door with a spi pole to makeshift a rudder - except in a bigger boat the forces become very, very high. But even there all it takes is a wave higher than half the LWL to come from the side just as the boat is in a 30 degree swing phase and suddenly you roll. I'm sorry if I over-reacted, but I know that incredible feeling of helplessness when alone at sea with severe problems like this and when people who haven't had that happen state that a skipper should have been able to steer the boat (because they read it in a textbook) it irks me.
Just as an aside - this happened to me in a Jeanneau 43. Using the prop just turned the boat in wide 360s. I tried using the 10hp dinghy but in ocean waves that didn't work. I tried dragging all the lines I had with buckets and other drag devices behind me and then used the engine - that just turned bigger circles. If I had been fully offshore I would have tried a door and pole but I managed to contact shore to get a boat to tow - so I didn't master the situation. The tow was going to be cheaper than replacing cabinetry and all that I had to do was rock and roll for 24 hours; but anyone who has had this happen far offshore and improvised to successfully avert disaster deserves kudos and respect.

When people who haven't had that happen state that a skipper should have been able to steer the boat (because they read it in a textbook) it irks me.

And on the other side you also do not know the experience of others. How can you say BECAUSE THEY READ IT IN A TEXT BOOK?

Quite honestly YOUR comment irks me.