Tell me if I’m wrong ( I don’t think I am!)

[Bmorgan562]

Went down to MDR to take a look at a Hans christian union polaris. Brought my wire and little one along. I don’t mind giving names at this point. Ron was the guy i met to look at it. seemed to be a nice boat, but Ron, wouldn’t or could tell me much. For instance age of the standing rigging or if it had been replaced, he told me the engine had been replaced but said he wasn’t allowed to start it, when i mentioned i would definitely want a new survey Ron said” well we have a guy, he’s non-biased and we’ve been using him along time”. I don’t really think Ron knows much about boats. although he said he and his partner mike buy and sell boat ( incidentally, this was off craigslist and the add read he was selling for a friend who just had a baby). My initial contact asked if he was a broker, no assert). So according to Ron This boat has “nothing wrong with it.” I felt many red flags flying. Still i was sucked in with the potential beauty and love. While i didn’t think too much of Ron, i ignored his”ignorance” and tried to shake his hand(no go) and asked if i could talk to the owner Mike. Mike called me later that night answered a few questions and i said i would get back to him quickly about taking the boat out and he agreed. called today to set up no answer. Then Rob called he told me that this is how he does business…” we agree on a price then we take you out, you can get your own survey at the same time but the price will not change.” now is this blatantly scandalous? is this normal? typical? come one come all please weigh in. —Brandon

[Chotu]

there is nothing normal about this at all. On your side or on their side. You should follow the standard procedure laid out here:

http://www.findyachts.com/wp-content...-Agreement.pdf

Execute this agreement. Change things that you need to. And follow it.

[mako]

I drove 3 hours to see a nice trawler. Asking $55k. I chewed him down to $45k that day. Then I said I'll send him a contract and setup my surveyor. He said if I wanted to bring a surveyor then the price would be $65k.

30 seconds later my wife and I were driving home.

Do NOT ever get emotional about buying a boat. Be critical. Be negative. Once you close then you can fall in love with her.

[siamese]

I'd want to have a price at least tentatively agreed on before I took you out for a sea trial. Otherwise, I'm likely to find out I've wasted my time on someone who wants to offer me a ridiculously low price.

The unbiased guy that they use. Obviously, he's the last person you'd use for a survey. Also, obviously, Ron is full of feces, and anything he tells you about the boat is of no value. As long as you know that, and don't forget it, you can move forward.

Regarding the part about the price not changing subsequent to the survey. I would ignore that. Assuming you've agreed on a price you can live with, which leaves room for post-purchase repairs, then you could have a survey done. Then, it becomes a pass/fail situation. If the boat needs too much, you walk away.

Or, if the repairs are significant, and you're still interested, make a new offer. Despite what Ron said. DEFINITELY despite what Ron said. 'Look Ron, these are the facts as we know them. The boat needs a new ____ and a rebuilt _____. My offer is $_____.'

And, always be prepared to walk.

edit: Oh, I see this was advertised on Craigslist. If Ron refuses to listen to reason, after the survey, you could send him a link on Craigslist for your ad. Where you're selling your survey for his boat. I don't want the boat, but a survey at half price should streamline the purchase for the next prospect...just helping you out, buddy. He can flag it, but you can put it back up. Put it on Facebook too.

[Bmorgan562]

Originally Posted by mako

I drove 3 hours to see a nice trawler. Asking $55k. I chewed him down to $45k that day. Then I said I'll send him a contract and setup my surveyor. He said if I wanted to bring a surveyor then the price would be $65k.

30 seconds later my wife and I were driving home.

Do NOT ever get emotional about buying a boat. Be critical. Be negative. Once you close then you can fall in love with her.

yes emotions are easier done then undone. I was cognizant of it at the time. but still so very excited more then i should have been don’t know how obvious i was. even in the face of a red flag barrage.

[HeywoodJ]

Originally Posted by Bmorgan562

... we agree on a price then we take you out,...

This part is industry standard. You view the boat at the dock, make an offer, have it negotiated and accepted, then you get to take the boat out for a sea trial and/or get it surveyed.

Just make sure your offer is clear on the conditions under which you can back out.

As for 'the price doesn't change', it is nearly industry standard that a surveyor will find something that needs correcting. You and the seller then attach an importance and dollar value to those things and re-negotiate the offer after the survey. How much the seller kicks back into the pot to correct deficiencies found by the surveyor is a whole new round of negotiation.

[Knotical]

Others gave you good advice.

I only want to say don’t fall in love before you buy the boat, if they see that love they will take you for a ride. Treat this deal professionally like you would before buying anything else (think car dealership) and be ready to talk away.

[Oeanda]

The statement that ‘There is nothing wrong with this boat’, is actually useful information and helps set your path. Everything else aside, you’ll have to go around Ron a bit. Not meaning to disparage his character. There’s even an extremely slight chance he is right, though I’ve never had luck buying from those ‘nothing wrong with it’ guys. But, you need a more realistic approach obviously.

[Tellie]

Originally Posted by Bmorgan562

Went down to MDR to take a look at a Hans christian union polaris. Brought my wire and little one along. I don’t mind giving names at this point. Ron was the guy i met to look at it. seemed to be a nice boat, but Ron, wouldn’t or could tell me much. For instance age of the standing rigging or if it had been replaced, he told me the engine had been replaced but said he wasn’t allowed to start it, when i mentioned i would definitely want a new survey Ron said” well we have a guy, he’s non-biased and we’ve been using him along time”. I don’t really think Ron knows much about boats. although he said he and his partner mike buy and sell boat ( incidentally, this was off craigslist and the add read he was selling for a friend who just had a baby). My initial contact asked if he was a broker, no assert). So according to Ron This boat has “nothing wrong with it.” I felt many red flags flying. Still i was sucked in with the potential beauty and love. While i didn’t think too much of Ron, i ignored his”ignorance” and tried to shake his hand(no go) and asked if i could talk to the owner Mike. Mike called me later that night answered a few questions and i said i would get back to him quickly about taking the boat out and he agreed. called today to set up no answer. Then Rob called he told me that this is how he does business…” we agree on a price then we take you out, you can get your own survey at the same time but the price will not change.” now is this blatantly scandalous? is this normal? typical? come one come all please weigh in. —Brandon

Always follow your instincts.

[Icarus]

Originally Posted by Tellie

Always follow your instincts.

Run, obviously something isn't righty

[Jim Cate]

^^^^^
If the boat truly has NOTHING wrong with it, well, it should not be sailed but put into a museum display as a unique specimen... the ONLY flawless sailboat in the world!

In other words, I reckon this chap is both ignorant and deceitful, and not someone with whom I would do business.

Jim

[nightowle]

Unwittingly, Ron's comment that "there's nothing wrong" is your best ammunition. When you confront him with the deficiencies shown by the survey and the necessity for a further price reduction that is now required, you will feel relaxed in any confrontation. After all, your previous price was based upon his assertion that "there's nothing wrong."

[Sailer_Med]

Jeezus, you are looking at old boats, you sure that about this?

I have a feeling you don't want to, but, you need to become your own surveyor. By that I mean get a thorough list and start checking things when you find a boat you like. You are going to have to be your own mechanic, rigger, carpenter, electrician, and helmsman anyway (old boat). The time to learn is now.

I'd also screen these sellers over the phone a little more. You're getting a good list of things that are annoying: will you start the engine for me, who owns the boat, can you talk price and delivery if I want it NOW, do you have time for me to look this over thoroughly, etc...

Have a mental checklist of things that are important to you that you can run while doing the first walk through; "is that a tube radio, are those bonito in the bilge, where's the morse key, who stole the ship's bell..." You get the idea.

If it passes that, do a thorough inspection. If not, have lunch with the wife and find another boat. There's a million pretty old nightmares out there.

For the thorough inspection, pull out your survey list and start screening things that are priority one issues that will stop the show. Get that over with right in front of the seller and hopefully engage them in the process, they should be able to tell you useful things during this process. Be prepared to stop at any point where there is a show stopper issue and have a discussion. Shouldn't take more than an 1 hour in the slip. If you are serious, the seller shouldn't have an issue. If the boat passes that screen be honest tell the seller so and start talking. This will also reveal sellers that are weirdos, unprepared to actually make a deal, or just complete ssholes. You can then act accordingly.

I can see a little bit of why the seller is reluctant about a survey. On an old boat at that price, there will likely be a million item punch list. What's it matter? Rather than a giant survey with a million item punch list which is only interesting to the surveyor, maybe you can get this down to a critical evaluation for a surveyor or you as a self appointed surveyor, that constitutes your go/no go criteria and budget and insist on that. You can tell the seller exactly what you are going to look over. I will inspect X,Y,Z in detail and if that passes we have a deal.

Remember who is writing the checks here. You are in charge, but it's not a dictatorship.

[goboatingnow]

I actually sell like this. Too many people use surveys as a simple means to try and low ball you.

I basically say all major items have been declared and no further discount will be offered post survey unless something material emerges. ( ie at least justify 10% sale value in costs )

[Baby tug]

Everybody lies about everything and ,people expect you to lie to them when you don’t lie to them they don’t know how to deal with it , I tend to irritate people because I am so honest and straightforward , I have no filter what i think is what i say so it doesn’t really matter what anybody says , the bottom line is you either like the boat and wanna buy it or you don’t , you’re going to offer what is fair to you and that’s it , don’t worry about anything else it doesn’t matter not in the least what you think of him what he thinks of you , none of that matters look at the boat make an offer if you wanna have it surveyed do that otherwise buy the boat or don’t