Wharram Tiki 38 vs Mike Waller CS35

[boatman61]

Hey.. I accept you are truly insane.. I'm merely mad..
Just had to go to Olhau, Portugal back in the 90's and see the Tangaroa's, Narai's etc in the Wharram village in the tidal lagoon that had been there for years.
But then the same can be said for all types of boats that sit in bays and marina's and go nowhere by the millions around the world..
Its the owners.. not the boats.

[double u]

[Boatguy30]

DOUBLE U

I agree 100% I only built my 34' cat do to very unique life circumstances and also because it was essentially a custom design by a leading designer to my exact needs/desires

[Malapropos]

Originally Posted by double u

@Malapropos: what is your sailing background?

I am a Novice. Sailed alot as a kid and teens, life happened, have only been on a boat a few times since. taking lessons this summer. not planning anything outrageous for about another 4 years, when the wife retires. will start building next summer, I have been researching cat designs for about the last four years trying to understand why different cats are designed differently. I think I have an understanding of the basics. I posted this same post in the builders forum and got some good information. If it was just building a boat for my self I would build a smaller Wharram. I'm not much on bells and whistles and roughing it is fine with me. I have the wife to think of and the only requirement she had aside from a toilet and shower was a bridge deck that she could go from one hull to the other in weather and stay dry. I can give her that with the Waller. The perfect boat, I've read is actually the perfect compromise.

[Malapropos]

I have watched all of their videos, loved them.

[Teleman]

My 0.02c worth on the Tiki 38.

Most home builders take at least 4,000 hours, so not a quick simple build although it's a simple boat.

Heavy, slow to windward, hobbyhorses/pitches horribly in some conditions, small accommodation for its length, hard to arrange good cockpit/deck shade.

Big open deck space, good downwind, simple maintenance, very safe if properly built.

An old friend has been happily cruising around Asia with his family for the last 5 years on a T38. The boat does what they need, keeps them safe, and suits their outlook and lifestyle.

He bought it for less than the build cost.

If building, the Waller CS35 would be a better bet for everything from performance to comfort to resale, for about the same dollars/hours.

At this dollar/hour/build it yourself equation, I would take a long hard look at Richard Woods' Romany and Vardo designs. Much better boats for the same effort and cost.

[rabbi]

I once looked into building a boat, but after reading tons of builders blogs I considered this a crazy idea not suitable for me.


Building a boat may be a rewarding eperience for a selected few, but for most folks it seems to be an endurance challenge.

It takes forever, ruins many marriages, is never as cheap as planned, the result is often substandard - if the boat is ever finished at all. Its sometimes quoted that only one out of ten boat projects gets finished.

Even if its finished it rarely is worth more than the sum of the materials, so you have done thousands of hours at 0-2 Euro per hour.

Just do the math:
Spend years of work on a boat that is worth less than the sum of materials afterwards, and risk your marriage and health in the process.
Or work some overtime work instead and save money, and spend some more on a cheap production boat and actually still have a family to go cruising with.

Really in todays market building makes only sense if you have very special needs and are the right mindset.


If you really want to build yourself you could probably find a half finished project for free or next to nothing.

[steve ripples]

Malapropos:

Have you had a look at Richard Woods cat designs?

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by rabbi

I once looked into building a boat, but after reading tons of builders blogs I considered this a crazy idea not suitable for me.


Building a boat may be a rewarding eperience for a selected few, but for most folks it seems to be an endurance challenge.

It takes forever, ruins many marriages, is never as cheap as planned, the result is often substandard - if the boat is ever finished at all. Its sometimes quoted that only one out of ten boat projects gets finished.

Even if its finished it rarely is worth more than the sum of the materials, so you have done thousands of hours at 0-2 Euro per hour.

Just do the math:
Spend years of work on a boat that is worth less than the sum of materials afterwards, and risk your marriage and health in the process.
Or work some overtime work instead and save money, and spend some more on a cheap production boat and actually still have a family to go cruising with.

Really in todays market building makes only sense if you have very special needs and are the right mindset.


If you really want to build yourself you could probably find a half finished project for free or next to nothing.

It really depends on what you build.

You can also end up with a very nice boat that will outsail pretty much ANY production boat short of a million dollars, for a fraction of the price.

You'll also know your boat intimately, every millimetre of it.

You'll know that EVERY bulkhead is properly glassed in. That every through hull is properly de-cored. Every deck fitting is done right.

That no previous owner has messed things up.

[double u]

you speaking from your own experience, 44CC???

[Fore and Aft]

I am with 44C. At least when you build a boat yourself it is done to your standard and you know exactly how the boat has been built. Not sure about the out sailing bit, but certainly a custom designed yacht should be able to out sail a production boat.
Cheers

[44'cruisingcat]

Not just a custom boat, but pretty much any of the performance cat designers will have plans or kits for boats that very few production boats can go close to.

Oram. Crowther, Schionning, Chris White, Chamberlin, Pescott, Arber, Grainger..... and many more.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by double u

you speaking from your own experience, 44CC???

Yes. Something people who say it's easier and cheaper to buy a second hand boat overlook is that it's exactly that: a second hand boat, with all that comes with....

When you build you get a new boat, set up exactly the way you want it.

[double u]

as posted earlier: "I been there done that", & I've seen quite a few self-built boats on 3rtws, (& I've seen many more failed/abandoned projects!) - & apart from 2 ALL of them (my own included) had "home-built-to-a-budget" written all over them, & the one of the two was his own boat that a professional boatbuilder built for himself.
but hey, what do I know? youall go ahead, break the bank & your marriage & end up with a boat that will, when the day has come, be very difficult & only cheaply to sell.
It can (& was for me!) be an unforgettable adventure & very characterbuilding - but that will be about the only upsides, all else ist theory. (& I spent >4200h from 77 till 81 building my magic carpet, that was a beast at the same time...)

[double u]

"... it is done to your standard and you know exactly how the boat has been built..."
the overly selfconfident home builder is at a definite advantage here...builders with a more critical look at their own abilities don't fare so well when the wind is up...