Drawbacks of Wharram Tiki or Pahi for Extended South Pacific Cruising

[Arikauai]

This is my first post!

I'm looking for a 40' to 50'+ catamaran to cruise around the tropical Pacific on an extended surfing/ kiteboarding trip. I need a boat that can fit these long toys IN the hull. My max budget is $250,000. I'm in my thirties and my "Admiral" is a great camper. I don't want a bunch of high tech, difficult to repair systems. My focus will be on finding good waves and enjoying the outdoors.

Without giving a tedious summary of my comparisons among various catamaran designs and manufacturers, my question to all you more experienced sailors is this:

Why wouldn't you buy a Wharram Tiki or Pahi?

Thanks for your opinions in advance.

[44'cruisingcat]

Welcome to the forum. I think for your budget and requirements, you're probably looking at the right kind of boat.

Why wouldn't I buy one? Well, they don't suit MY requirements.

[boatman61]

I would not buy/build a Pahi because it has a built in weakess with the skegs mounted in the bow and because the more rounded hull shape does not point as well as the Tiki...
I love the Tiki Design... but then I would having owned a 21 and 26.... while your looking at Wharrams I suggest you take a look at the Ariki... a heavier build but designed for fast sailing...
Welcome to CF... good to have a possible Wharram owner aboard...

[boatsmith]

I as well prefer the Classics and the Tikis to the Pahis. This is mostly about aesthetics. I am not a fan of the Tiki rig. I prefer a more modern full batten big roach main.

[farotherside]

Originally Posted by Arikauai

I need a boat that can fit these long toys IN the hull. My max budget is $250,000.

considered a searunner trimaran?

[boatman61]

Here ya go... already in the Pacific... might even still be for sale...

Perfect Tiki 46

Thursday, July 22 2010 @ 02:11 PM BST
Contributed by: milo
Views: 1,204 An exceptional version of the Tiki 46 gaff-rigged schooner. She is comprehensively equipped for leisure and round the world cruising, and was exclusively sailed by her present owner. She was launched in 2006 in Croatia, and has proofed her seaworthiness during her journeys through the Mediterranean Sea, Red Sea, Gulf of Aden, Indian Ocean and South China Sea. She can sail from wind speeds of 7kn and has endured storms of up to 50kn. Diesel engine with 2 hydraulic shaft drives, reefing system on all sails (single handed sailing), hydraulic steering with Nexusmarine autopilot and instruments, Furuno 1833C.

Inventory under 'Read More'

Auxiliary Drive:
Engine: 1 x Kubota V2203EU (50HP), 1200 hours
Drives: 2 x independent switch able hydraulic drives with drive shaft, in the hulls
Propeller: 2 x Bronze 2 blade 16x13” 35% BAR
Cruising speed: 5 to 6 kn
Max. speed: 8 kn
Fuel consumption: 2.0 to 2.5 ltr. @ 5 kn
Diesel tanks: 1 x 45 ltr. day tank and 1 x 255 ltr. Storage tank with electric transfer pump

Sails & Rig:
• Aluminum masts & stainless steel standing rigging
• 2 Z-spar booms for mizzen and mainsail with boom vang and reefing system for all 3 reefs
• Lazy jacks for mizzen & main
• Plastimo roller furling for staysail
• Mizzen & Main 34m2 each made of 8 oz US Dacron by Rolly Tasker sails
• Staysail 23m2 made of 7oz US Dacron by Rolly Tasker sails
• Electric windlass at each mast for easy sail operation
• 15 Easylock jammers for all halyards reefing lines, etc.
• 5 Harken ST winches
• Can be sailed single handed !!
Steering system:
• Kobelt hydraulic steering system for commercial vessels with two hydraulic jacks acting directly to the rudder, synchronized by a tie bar
• Nexusmarine NX2 electro hydraulic Autopilot (can steer with 1 to 2 degree accuracy for all wind directions, also with 4m waves from astern)
• Emergency tiller for both rudder

Ground tackle:
• 40 kg CQR with 100m of 10mm chain marked at 5m intervals
• Fortress FX55 Aluminum anchor 14kg with 10m of 10mm chain & 100m of 20mm rope
• 2 nos Danforth 20 kg as spares
• Electric windlass with food switches for both anchors

Electronics / Navigation:
• Furuno 1933C radar / chart plotter with 4kW radome scanner (36nm range) and GPS, 10.5” daylight visible color screen
• C-map electronic charts: Mediterranean, Red Sea, Indian Ocean and South China Sea
• Nexusmarine NX2 racing class instruments with server and transducers for: Depth, Speed, Wind, Fluxgate compass, Rudder angle and GPS
• Nexusmarine NX2 twin data displays: Wind Data, Autopilot, Speed, Analog Depth, Multi Control and Remote Control
• Furuno Fax30 weather fax / Navtext receiver with Furuno Fax05 amplifier
• Navman 7100 DSC VHF radio
• Handheld Entel HT640 submersible VHF radio with Li-ion batteries
• Two steering compass (125mm & 100mm)
Electric system:
• House batteries: 4 x 150Ah; 12V industrial grade (OPzS 150)
• 90A Alternator with digital Sterling charger booster
• 2 x 50A Sterling digital Battery charger (can charge from a Honda 20i generator @ 90A)
• 2 x 65W Sanyo solar panels with separate regulators
• Ampere hour meter
• Pure sine wave inverter 350W / 230V
• Main switch panel with 36 separate circuits
• 3 deck lights
• All cables are invisible incorporated into the deck foam core
• 2 to 3 separate lights in each bunk, 4 in galley, 4 in saloon
• Stereo Radio/CD player with changer for 6 CD’s
• 150W Kenwood amplifier
• 2-way antimagnetic, waterproof 100W Clarion speakers

Accommodation:
• 3 double bunks & 1 convertible double bunk in the saloon
• each bunk with private entry compartment
• ample of stowage space in all bunks (no tanks in the hulls)
• 6 Gebo deck hatches, 5 port holes & 5 Hella fans for ventilation
• 1.85m height clearance inside the hulls
• Spacious head with Jabsco manual toilet
• Two burner gas stove (1600 & 3000W)
• Storage rack for 3 nos. of 14 kg gas tanks
• 165 ltr. Steca low power consumption fridge / freezer with Danfos BD 50 compressor, 11cm insulation and integrated condenser (power consumption 35Ah/day @ 12V in fridge mode !!)
• Separate compartment for workshop and spare parts
Fresh water:
• Pressurized fresh water system with two 150lit. tanks and two separate automatic Jabsco pumps
• Echotec engine driven water maker with a freshwater output of 150ltr./hr High pressure pump: stainless steel / ceramic; double 40” membrane; double pre-filters

Safety Equipment:
• DSC VHF radio with NMEA interface for continuous GPS data
• 6 person life raft
• 406 MHz EPIRB
• 12 life vests
• 6 life belts
• 1 Safe sling, 1 Horseshoe life ring, 2 emergency buoys

Dinghy:
• Honwave Dinghy 3.00m (similar construction as Zodiac)
• Yamaha 4 outboard engine


Present location: Langkawi / Malaysia

Contact: lenz_my@yahoo.com.sg

[boatman61]

And here we have an Ariki....

Ariki for sale West Indies

Friday, February 05 2010 @ 01:19 PM GMT
Contributed by: irvoas iwen
Views: 493

Ariki 48 x 25 for sale in the West Indies.
First launched in 2007 in canada

Timber : BC fir , mahogany and white oak
plywood : BC fir
2 layers of 10 ounces of fiber glass clothing over the waterline, 6 under with epoxy system
beams: 2x1 BC fir , 23 times glued - stainless steel screwed

Engine : 25 CV yamaha 2007

Spruce Mast by Philipp Rhodes (NY)



Ready to live and sail
asking : 50 000 euros

Contact: plumedelle@yahoo.fr

[Mark Johnson]

I built an old design Wharram, (36 years ago), and this design line may be right for your requirements. I don't know about the PAHI, with their forward daggerboard, but the Tiki's are better than the old designs. Be aware... They have so much overhang that you have to compare them to other designs of similar "WL" lengths, not "OA" length. They tend to be so much less expensive, however, that buying a really big one becomes economically possible. They don't go to windward well, due to side slipping, but for many, this is not so much of an issue. (They "point" well, but the true VMG is poor.) They can be quite fast, and if well built, seaworthy. They are SPARTAN in & out, and really wet, but with a "deck pod" to stand watch in, this becomes tolerable. In the larger sizes, they lend themselves to having extra crew, due to the privacy afforded by an entire extra hull/cabin. They have ample wing clearance as well, and in the larger sizes, carry a payload well. They have a great "tough" hull for going aground, and waiting for high tide! Sort of an ocean going "pick up truck"...

If this is your cup of tea, IMO... don't go for cheapest, go for best built! Well glassed with epoxy, & in the WEST system, LP paints, and a conventional rig with wire & turnbuckles.

Good luck, Mark

[Arikauai]

Originally Posted by drew23

considered a searunner trimaran?

I haven't, but have looked into the "Concept" of trimarans... It's kind of hard to find info on searunners. Why did you choose one over a cat? I'm agnostic when it comes to design, I just want what works.

[Arikauai]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And here we have an Ariki....

Ariki for sale West Indies

Friday, February 05 2010 @ 01:19 PM GMT
Contributed by: irvoas iwen
Views: 493

Ariki 48 x 25 for sale in the West Indies.
First launched in 2007 in canada

Timber : BC fir , mahogany and white oak
plywood : BC fir
2 layers of 10 ounces of fiber glass clothing over the waterline, 6 under with epoxy system
beams: 2x1 BC fir , 23 times glued - stainless steel screwed

Engine : 25 CV yamaha 2007

Spruce Mast by Philipp Rhodes (NY)



Ready to live and sail
asking : 50 000 euros

Contact: plumedelle@yahoo.fr

Thanks for the leads Boatman, I'm looking into these.

[Arikauai]

Originally Posted by boatman61

And here we have an Ariki....

Ariki for sale West Indies

Friday, February 05 2010 @ 01:19 PM GMT
Contributed by: irvoas iwen
Views: 493

Ariki 48 x 25 for sale in the West Indies.
First launched in 2007 in canada

Timber : BC fir , mahogany and white oak
plywood : BC fir
2 layers of 10 ounces of fiber glass clothing over the waterline, 6 under with epoxy system
beams: 2x1 BC fir , 23 times glued - stainless steel screwed

Engine : 25 CV yamaha 2007

Spruce Mast by Philipp Rhodes (NY)



Ready to live and sail
asking : 50 000 euros

Contact: plumedelle@yahoo.fr

Originally Posted by Mark Johnson

I built an old design Wharram, (36 years ago), and this design line may be right for your requirements. I don't know about the PAHI, with their forward daggerboard, but the Tiki's are better than the old designs. Be aware... They have so much overhang that you have to compare them to other designs of similar "WL" lengths, not "OA" length. They tend to be so much less expensive, however, that buying a really big one becomes economically possible. They don't go to windward well, due to side slipping, but for many, this is not so much of an issue. (They "point" well, but the true VMG is poor.) They can be quite fast, and if well built, seaworthy. They are SPARTAN in & out, and really wet, but with a "deck pod" to stand watch in, this becomes tolerable. In the larger sizes, they lend themselves to having extra crew, due to the privacy afforded by an entire extra hull/cabin. They have ample wing clearance as well, and in the larger sizes, carry a payload well. They have a great "tough" hull for going aground, and waiting for high tide! Sort of an ocean going "pick up truck"...

If this is your cup of tea, IMO... don't go for cheapest, go for best built! Well glassed with epoxy, & in the WEST system, LP paints, and a conventional rig with wire & turnbuckles.

Good luck, Mark

Mark, thanks .

It is my cup of tea, as I need tough hulls for beaching and high clearance for my destinations. My gear is bulky so I need space/ length thus I'm willing to sacrifice certain "Luxuries" to get that. The lack of spray protection I hope to get around by building a good dodger or larger pod. I'm not afraid of handling a big boat but, rig wise, I want my girl to be able to hoist under her own power. For this reason I'm considering a crab claw or junk rig.

Any thoughts?

Having grown up repairing surfboards, I like epoxy.

[farotherside]

Originally Posted by Arikauai

I haven't, but have looked into the "Concept" of trimarans... It's kind of hard to find info on searunners. Why did you choose one over a cat? I'm agnostic when it comes to design, I just want what works.

honestly? availability.

I got mine for $20k, but she needed *easily* that again in maintenance and repairs and upgrades (and literally about six months of full-time work) to get her up to her current state. that being said, I have a great deal of respect for the design, and now there isn't a system on the boat that I can't tear apart and repair on my own.

we're planning to leave south from the west coast of Canada in late August, eventually headed to the South Pacific. maybe see you out there?

[Sand crab]

You can find a cat or a tri in your budget. Check out this 1995 Catana 44 for $285,000. Navigator Yacht Sales (Hobe Sound, FL)
Way better than a Wharram even with a furling mainsail.

[Arikauai]

Originally Posted by drew23

honestly? availability.

I got mine for $20k, but she needed *easily* that again in maintenance and repairs and upgrades (and literally about six months of full-time work) to get her up to her current state. that being said, I have a great deal of respect for the design, and now there isn't a system on the boat that I can't tear apart and repair on my own.

we're planning to leave south from the west coast of Canada in late August, eventually headed to the South Pacific. maybe see you out there?

I'm not sure I could get my surfboards into those amas but I think I'll revisit the trimaran classifieds.

I looked at your blog and it was a good reminder of something. If I spend $100,000 instead of $250,000 purchasing a boat that would leave me with $150,000 to cruise with, which could translate into a longer voyage, more flights home when desired, etc.

[Arikauai]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

You can find a cat or a tri in your budget. Check out this 1995 Catana 44 for $285,000. Navigator Yacht Sales (Hobe Sound, FL)
Way better than a Wharram even with a furling mainsail.

Thanks for the lead that's a nice boat; I'm a fan of Catanas.

My fundamental question is this: What specific trait of the Wharrams prevent you (And others on this forum) from purchasing one? What do people dislike so much that they will spend tens of thousands, if not more, on a different boat?