What Do You Desire? Are you living a life that you enjoy?

[406Columbia]

Originally Posted by Ndavies

What a great video - I have not seen that before. I will be showing that to my son as he is struggling with what he wants to do for the rest of his life.

As for myself, I am fortunate to have enjoyed my career as a civil engineer and got great satisfaction out of many of the projects I was involved in. And in some way, I believe that many of these were a benefit to society. Having said that, I recently decided to retire somewhat early (age 57). Why? - for many of the reasons you describe. I was over the travel, more projects were being motivated by law suites than benefits to society etc.

But my passion has become sailing. I took a sabbatical from work in 2014 to see if my wife and I would enjoy extended trips. Since then, we have taken an extended trip each year, and just returned from 6 months in the Bahamas on our boat.

So, for me, I definitely reinforce the message of "do what you enjoy", and if you need to make money doing it, you will find a way. Don't leave it too late in life. In your situation, I would get that boat seaworthy, take a sabbatical and cruise. If you like it, make the changes to your life that will allow you to continue.

Neil

Thanks Neil, great advice and story

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Everything in life is a balancing act. My dad wanted badly to buy a Westsail 32 in about 1976 and head for the Caribbean, but he felt he had a responsibility to get both kids through college, and he couldn't afford to do both.

The first time I crossed the Gulf Stream, 12 years after Dad died, I flew the flag from my dad's old boat, and my son and I cracked a bottle of champagne and toasted him when we reached the Sea of Abaco. He didn't get to do it, but he gave me the dream.

[laika]

Sometimes overlooked in the "what do you really want to do?" question is the "wherever you go, there you are" bit. Sure you do what makes you happy, but you can't expect the act of doing to itself make you happy. And it's not something you have to be living the dream to cultivate.

It's gotta be something like 90% attitude. Having a good head on your shoulders gets you through the inevitable times where you end up having to cut wide gaping holes in your beloved boat.

Ithaka

As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
angry Poseidon—don’t be afraid of them:
you’ll never find things like that on your way
as long as you keep your thoughts raised high,
as long as a rare excitement
stirs your spirit and your body.
Laistrygonians and Cyclops,
wild Poseidon—you won’t encounter them
unless you bring them along inside your soul,
unless your soul sets them up in front of you.

Hope the voyage is a long one.
May there be many a summer morning when,
with what pleasure, what joy,
you come into harbors seen for the first time;
may you stop at Phoenician trading stations
to buy fine things,
mother of pearl and coral, amber and ebony,
sensual perfume of every kind—
as many sensual perfumes as you can;
and may you visit many Egyptian cities
to gather stores of knowledge from their scholars.

Keep Ithaka always in your mind.
Arriving there is what you are destined for.
But do not hurry the journey at all.
Better if it lasts for years,
so you are old by the time you reach the island,
wealthy with all you have gained on the way,
not expecting Ithaka to make you rich.

Ithaka gave you the marvelous journey.
Without her you would not have set out.
She has nothing left to give you now.

And if you find her poor, Ithaka won’t have fooled you.
Wise as you will have become, so full of experience,
you will have understood by then what these Ithakas mean.

-C.P Cavafy

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by 406Columbia

Hello All,

I was fortunate enough today to listen to a audio clip from Alan Watts and no I'm not into the eastern philosophy stuff. Anyway the piece is often titled what do you desire.

It touches on something my family and I have been struggling with for the last few years with my work. I travel quite a bit for work and am apart from my wife and children far more than I care for. We don't live an extravagant life, but its stupid to continue doing what we don't like.

My son told me the other day that when he was big, that he would travel for work and be gone from his family too and it hurt me deeply. I had to take a step back and evaluate what we are doing and for what purpose.

My wife and I desire to be together and to help people. I have worked for years in disaster recovery and emergency management and that seems to fit. The intrinsic value I obtain from helping really blesses me. We also like to share our faith with anyone who wants to hear about how awesome Jesus is. I wont go into my experiences with that and being blown up, etc. but what an interesting story of faith I like to share with friends.

All this said, what is your purpose in life? If you were to die today would you be satisfied with how you spent your days? How would you really enjoy spending your life if money were not option?

I post this here because we are refitting our small boat right now for some short cruising. But I am thinking perhaps we need to just rent out the house, take off and be together and make do with less. Focus on the things of true value that really will give us satisfaction in life.

Not being gone months on end, not sending your kids off to daycare Monday through Friday. Investing in things we really love.

I look forward to some comments and I know lots of folks are a bit older than my wife and I here and we are looking to hear your feedback and what you would do differently and why?

never saw a tombstone that said wish I had spent more time at work.

But seriously life is all about a diving at your grave in a body that is all torn up and worn out and your spirit saying man what a ride.
Seriously Finnish the refit rent out the house and just go for 6 months . After which reevaluate whether you wish to return to ( and I'm cussing a bit ) dirt life.
Bet you won't stop cruising.

[thinwater]

It's a fun thought exercise, well worthwhile. But money is limited, people do have to farm and produce industrial goods and fuels (not all of which is fun--ask a refinery worker or farmer), and it aint' all going to be laughs. In fact, substance survival is hard work and not that much fun. Walden Pond would have been no paradise, if security and the crumbs of society were not provided.


Other views hold that you should do what you are good at for a living and then play when you can, as it is far more efficient that trying to make a living at something that is not in demand. Who is to say that you can't find something to do that is a compromise? I like engineering, I don't love all of the things the career demanded, but for me, the dollar/unpleasantness ratio was better than any other occupation. Much of it was good fun.


On the other hand, I like sailing and climbing and writing, but I know for certain they aren't all fun either. If they were, they would not be rewarding.


Finally, money can't buy happiness, but the lack of money can be a real drag when your kid needs a doctor. That's not philosophical, that's just the brass tacks.



So find a balance. I'm glad I liked being an engineer. You can probably guess this from my post history.

[Jimmy4Jesus]

Greetings,
Long story, hope it helps.

Kind of encountered this some years ago. Have raised kids since 1988, youngest is 13 and we have 5. Trained to be a Preacher in college and have done that and ran mission organization once, sometimes for free, onetime for $50/week and housing.

Many times outside work was required. About the time the second child arrived I went back to a company I had known previously. Sales and delivery covering about 8 states. Christian Boss that I loved like a Father, good company. Started at 1 week travel and 3 weeks home working in the warehouse. Business would grow and boss would ask, Do I hire another man or send you out another week, I would ask my wife,and she would ask,how much more money, and then send me off. Got to be being gone 12 out of every 13 weeks but made, what for us seemed like lots of Money. Company changed, I became a franchise owner and failed. Eventually wound up running a mission sending youth on mission trips. No $ but housing and some food and support $ from Churches. Lived on site so was mostly on site and within yelling reach. We home-schooled and kids went with us when we traveled, most times. Third child had arrived and fourth was our surprise girl after 3 boys. Putting her to bed one night I asked my wife a question. I said every night I rock her to sleep. I remember doing the same for the third child. Why do I not remember that for the first two. She replied, as kindly as she could, you weren't there, you were off making $$. I remember replying, That was stupid. I won't ever do that again, and I haven't : )

[SV Sailfish]

Originally Posted by AJ_n_Audrey

Everything in life is a balancing act. My dad wanted badly to buy a Westsail 32 in about 1976 and head for the Caribbean, but he felt he had a responsibility to get both kids through college, and he couldn't afford to do both.

The first time I crossed the Gulf Stream, 12 years after Dad died, I flew the flag from my dad's old boat, and my son and I cracked a bottle of champagne and toasted him when we reached the Sea of Abaco. He didn't get to do it, but he gave me the dream.

I salute your Dad.

[Dave_S]

I see what your saying!

[AJ_n_Audrey]

Originally Posted by SV Sailfish

I salute your Dad.

Thanks! Best dad ever, gone too soon.

But back to the OP's post, one of his concerns was not enough time with kids. My advice is, take it out of your hide to find that time, somehow, someway. Could be sailing, could sports, could be backpacking, but find it. With my boys, I always scheduled backpacking trips of 2-3 days sometimes longer, 6, 7 or more times a year, and refused to reschedule except in the most dire circumstances. So we spent time together, reliably. And that can be hard, by the way, but accept it, because it's worth it. My personal opinion is that quality matters more than quantity, but being gone months at a time, as the OP mentioned is not good. I explicitly, purposefully stayed away from jobs like that, and I recognized I was limiting my career, and I accepted that. Close relationships with children is worth all that it takes to build them.

[bill352]

Originally Posted by laika

Ithaka

As you set out for Ithaka
hope the voyage is a long one,
full of adventure, full of discovery.

"Ithaka" is often paired with Auden's "Atlantis", which begins,


"Being set on the idea
Of getting to Atlantis,
You have discovered of course
Only the Ship of Fools is
Making the voyage this year,..."


The rest is here - https://www.poemhunter.com/poem/atlantis/


For another viewpoint, I heard this conversation a while back:


"I'd really like to make a lot of money some day."


"Do what you love - the money will follow."


"I'd really love to be an elementary school teacher."


"..........."

[daletournier]

I believe it's always about understanding the cost one must pay. No matter what path one takes there's a cost. Mostly people don't take the time to determine what that cost is and this is critical in choosing a path. Understanding the cost and consciously deciding to pay the price is an important step to freedom.

The cost often is time, money or health.
I look at money and time as both currencies. Many, I'd say a majority of us choose to trade our time for more money doing stuff we don't particularly want to do. In my case I was presented with the option of locking my freedom in place with (hopefully) enough income to live ok if I live within my means or having four times that income with the potential of having alot of money in my later years BUT always having the risk the business may have a downturn and I'd be back there trapped working until my later years, remincing about the time I was free. This was an unacceptable cost for me.

I determined I'd rather trade the money for the time. More money or time? I think the human mind isn't designed to understand mortality, we take time for granted thinking there's always more. You can check how much money you have in your financial bank account but not your time account.

Yet I acknowledge that my decision may have been different if my income was less than what I believed to to be "enough"..... what is enough is also a big question to ask, it depends!

[frant]

What a crock of **** that Watts video is.

[daletournier]

Originally Posted by frant

What a crock of **** that Watts video is.

Now there's a winning statement! Disagree by all means but how about some reasoning or at least an explanation to back up you "crock of ****" comment.
Why comment at all if your not going to attempt to explain enlighten us?

[406Columbia]

"the price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for it" -Thoreau

Opportunity cost comes to mind in all this thinking. Not many people consider the costs in opportunity when I think earning money versus time. Presently I fid I have more money than time and would like to rebalance to achieve more time with what matters more to me and less time earning money despite the fact I work only six or seven months a year.

[kalbahnov]

Originally Posted by daletournier

Now there's a winning statement! Disagree by all means but how about some reasoning or at least an explanation to back up you "crock of ****" comment.
Why comment at all if your not going to attempt to explain enlighten us?

Let me take a run at that. I'll say first that I enjoyed this and do actually try to live my life that way. But I also like to argue, so here goes.

"What do we want? ... when we answer that question in a naive way, we figure out that what we want .. is to control everything. To create girls that don't grow old, apples that don't rot, clothes that never wear out ..."

... but ...

"A completely predictable future is already the past. That's not what you want. You want a surprise ... nobody wants power ... nobody wants to be god."

In this, he characterizes the desire for power as a mode of self indulgence. It is the thoughtless desire of a thoughtless person. But he's also making the curious argument that the antidote to this self indulgence is another kind of self indulgence.

Essentially, it's "do what you love and the money will come." The power you seek, he's arguing, is there for the taking if you only look past it, but will consume and confuse you if you seek it directly.

But this is pseudo-wisdom in that it's the kind of advice that can only work out for a few people. There is a market for poets, but not for ten million poets no matter what their level of mastery. Markets simply don't work that way. Reality is not as accommodating as he claims.

A few of us can lead lives of no compromise, but most of us aren't smart enough for it, don't have the risk tolerance for it, etc. We must, therefore, seek power for its own sake and compete for no purpose but to win.

Surely, some people do get lost in that process, forgetting that power is a means and not an end. Real wisdom, I'll argue, consists in remembering the distinction between means and ends and in making the compromises needed to pursue one for the sake of the other.

But he's shaming us for those compromises.