Rainman Desalinization

[Myknjul]

Hi all. Quick question! Has anyone purchased one of the Rainman Desalinization Systems we see advertised in the forum? If so, your thoughts and impressions would be greatly appreciated. Admiral doesn't want to leave without a watermaker of some type.

[CarstenWL]

... use the search function in the forum ...

You will find plenty, this is the latest: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-135331.html

Regards,

Carsten

[Robyjeff]

I purchased a 240v Rainman unit a couple of weeks back in Cairns Australia and am very pleased with it.
Using it in good clear water on the GBR Australia it has made very good water between 242- 255ppm and volumes between 115-140lph. I run it of my generator but have also run it from my 2.6KW 12V-230v Inverter, although Rainmen don't recomend it. I had one of my 160hp engines at 1/3 power. It started up ok and used a similar amount of power as my electric 1400W oven so. This is a good back up if our geni ever fails.
The unit is really simple, and easy to use unlike the complex 12V system it replaced. I am now fitting the membrane permanently onto the side of a hull but will keep the motor/pump semi portable so we can use it to wash down our decks for when our boat becomes a home for marine birds. Let me know if you would like pics once we have fitted it into a hull.
Cheers Rob
"M.V. Flash dancer"

[Rainman]

Originally Posted by Robyjeff

I run it of my generator but have also run it from my 2.6KW 12V-230v Inverter, although Rainmen don't recomend it.

Thanks for posting your experiences Rob. We're very happy you are enjoying your Rainman! We're also interested to hear you have it running on an inverter. As you point out, we don't recommend it for normal operation, but it's good to know you can use it in an emergency if your generator fails. Forum readers may be interested in seeing some details, like which brand and model of inverter you use? We would not have expected a 2.6kW inverter to be capable of providing the startup current required. Is there some sort of soft start in your system?

For the sake of public record, there are a few reasons we don't recommend running an electric Rainman from an inverter:

1. Inverters vary wildly in their claimed specs. A "3000W" inverter on ebay which is about the size and weight of a car stereo will cost as little as $200, but a proper 3000W inverter from a reputable manufacturer will be about 10x the size, weight and price. Needless to say these two units will perform vastly differently, yet they are both "3000W" inverters.
   
   
2. Our electric unit will draw about 110A on a 12V system. Even if you have an inverter that is up to the task, that's a significant load to put on your batteries for hours at a time.
   
   
3. It is heavy on the wiring that may or may not be designed to carry such current for long periods of time.

For these reasons, running a 12V system at 110A for prolonged periods is not a trivial matter. It requires the proper components configured by someone with a good understanding of DC systems. The price of getting it wrong could be damaged batteries, damaged inverter, overheated wiring, or worse. As Rob has shown, it can be done for emergency backup, but not recommended for regular use.

[Huggi21]

[QUOTE=Huggi21;1940190]

Hi Fellow cruisers,

In reference to Rainman Watermakers,

After 2 years of research into watermakers we decided to take the plunge and purchase the Rainman system from Australia for many reasons, first we wanted portability and did not want the major hassle of another thru hull fitting and all the pipework needed to plumb in the unit, we also wanted easy maintenance ,standard parts availability and at least 100 litres an hour production, the DC models seem to take for ever to produce this amount of water and are very complicated, many using twin pumps ,plus a major bonus was we can always take it with us if we change boats .

At the present time we are anchored in St Lucia for the season and had it shipped from Australia, could not believe it , we ordered it last week, it was sent Friday and it arrived the following wed to our boat , what service well done Rainman and DHL.

I have both the petrol model and 220v electric unit on board if anybody would like a demo, i set it up first to try out the pressure gun which I also ordered, just dropped the pick up hose about 8 ft from the deck into the ocean through my trampoline as the water tanks are forward ,then started the engine, that was it, to say heaven is an understatement, It was a pleasure to clean the decks without scrubbing by hand, I rinsed them off with a little fresh water after and they sparkled.

Next I set up the twin membrane unit to start producing fresh water ,just unplugged the pressure gun hose and attached the feed line from the membrane unit ,then again started the engine, it took about 30 seconds for fresh water to come through, it is very simple to use and easy to flush through when finished then pack away .

It produced around 300 litres in 2 hours and used around 1.5 litres of fuel.

All I can say is well done to Rainman , you are manufacturing an outstanding product and all the best for the future.

PS: I must let you know I am a little biased towards the product, as i was so impressed with Rainman, i have now become an Ambassador and Rep for company in the Caribbean and if you are in the St Lucia or West indies area and would like an on board demo or more info on their products please call by or make contact.

[zboss]

The issue I am having with a rainman desal is the price. The rainman is about a 30 GPH watermaker in a electric option and it sells for about $5100 and is made in Australia?

The CruiseRO is made in the USA (I believe) and is $5250 for the 30 GPH.

With the exchange rate between the USA and Australia currently being a very favorable 1.39 I would expect the rainman to sell in the US for closer to $3800.

Unless of course you are really saying it's closer to the pricing of a larger spectra (which I do not believe) - in the $7100 range and then you can't compare to the pricing of the CruiseRO.

[Rainman]

Hi Zboss,

Thanks for your questions about Rainman. The $5,100 you mentioned is US$. We price in three currencies, depending on the market. AU$ for Australia and New Zealand, € for Europe, and US$ for everywhere else. We periodically adjust pricing to account for fluctuations in exchange rates. Our goal is to set pricing to be in parity around the world (pre-shipping, pre-tax), but deal in multiple currencies to make it more convenient for our customers to work with us.

We make our systems in Australia and ship them out from Sydney. However, about 65% of our underlying cost base is in US$, and our components come from around the world. For example, our high pressure pumps come from Minnesota, our relief valves come from Italy, most of our hoses are from the UK, our blue polyethylene shells are made in Australia, the Filmtec RO membranes come from California, some custom fittings are machined in China, our valves and gauges are from the US, Honda motors are made in Thailand, our assembly labour is Australian, etc.

Basically, we buy the best components we can find and bring them to our Sydney facility for assembly. Fortunately, shipping and logistics is pretty competitive and easy these days, so the freight is only a modest part of the overall input cost. We can ship units to the US for about US$290, the Caribbean Islands for about US$550, and across Australia for between AU$20 and AU$120.

It is convenient that Australia has some pretty good free trade agreements in place. There is no duty or tax going to the US, 1.7% duty going to most European countries, etc.

Recent strength in the US$ has helped our US$ pricing, but has driven up our AU$ pricing somewhat. This is due to our underlying cost base being tied more to US$, even though we are an Australian made product.

I hope this helps clarify your Rainman pricing and currency query. We are doing our best to provide a top quality product at fair and competitive prices.

[Huggi21]

Hi,
The average selling price in Australia for the Rainman electric unit with 140 lit twin membrane in a case seems to be around $7000 AUD so close to $5100 USD you mentioned at todays exchange rate, as you know it must be pretty hard to keep costs level with rates up and down every month .

There is also the shipping factor ,road freight,,import duties,customs and taxes if applicable to other countries which can add substantial cost depending on where you are.

Hope this helps with your decision, all I can advise we did a lot of homework including the costs of shipping and have to say we are very happy with the product ,it was cost effective to buy,its very simple to use ,easy to maintain, economical to run and is producing all the fresh water we need .Cheers

Originally Posted by zboss

The issue I am having with a rainman desal is the price. The rainman is about a 30 GPH watermaker in a electric option and it sells for about $5100 and is made in Australia?

The CruiseRO is made in the USA (I believe) and is $5250 for the 30 GPH.

With the exchange rate between the USA and Australia currently being a very favorable 1.39 I would expect the rainman to sell in the US for closer to $3800.

Unless of course you are really saying it's closer to the pricing of a larger spectra (which I do not believe) - in the $7100 range and then you can't compare to the pricing of the CruiseRO.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Huggi21

Hi,
The average selling price in Australia for the Rainman electric unit with 140 lit twin membrane in a case seems to be around $7000 AUD so close to $5100 USD you mentioned at todays exchange rate, as you know it must be pretty hard to keep costs level with rates up and down every month .

Well, that's my point. The Rainman is much more like the much less expensive CruiseRo than it is a Spectra. They are charging for a CruiseRO at a Spectra price point.

[zboss]

Originally Posted by Rainman

It is convenient that Australia has some pretty good free trade agreements in place. There is no duty or tax going to the US, 1.7% duty going to most European countries, etc.

Recent strength in the US$ has helped our US$ pricing, but has driven up our AU$ pricing somewhat. This is due to our underlying cost base being tied more to US$, even though we are an Australian made product.

I hope this helps clarify your Rainman pricing and currency query. We are doing our best to provide a top quality product at fair and competitive prices.

Nevermind... I see what you are saying. If you could source 100% of you components from Australia then you could offer a better price.

[Ribbit]

Originally Posted by RM2015

For the sake of public record, there are a few reasons we don't recommend running an electric Rainman from an inverter:

1. Inverters vary wildly in their claimed specs. A "3000W" inverter on ebay which is about the size and weight of a car stereo will cost as little as $200, but a proper 3000W inverter from a reputable manufacturer will be about 10x the size, weight and price. Needless to say these two units will perform vastly differently, yet they are both "3000W" inverters.
   
   
2. Our electric unit will draw about 110A on a 12V system. Even if you have an inverter that is up to the task, that's a significant load to put on your batteries for hours at a time.
   
   
3. It is heavy on the wiring that may or may not be designed to carry such current for long periods of time.

For these reasons, running a 12V system at 110A for prolonged periods is not a trivial matter. It requires the proper components configured by someone with a good understanding of DC systems. The price of getting it wrong could be damaged batteries, damaged inverter, overheated wiring, or worse. As Rob has shown, it can be done for emergency backup, but not recommended for regular use.

Very valid points that bear repeating.

In many ways 12v is not really a suitable voltage for comprehensive use in DC. If you keep things limited, and have enough safety buffer with the amp capabilities of wiring and other components, it can work well enough.

The upper limit for economic and practical amperage handling (for a tightwad like me) is 170 amp cable - this stuff is cheap. For long term reliability and no overheating (catastrophic to the life and reliability of cable and system infrastructure - and it also has an effect on the reliability and service life of equipment being run as well), I keep loads to 50% max of that design amperage (so no more than 85 amps going through it at any one time - which also isn't too bad for the run of the mill 12v battery).

So you 'could' actually recommend use with a 12v system, if you make clear the necessary infrastructure to cope with it. Number of batteries and type, spec of cables and connectors connecting batteries to each other to be able to cope with the amperage, total up the maximum amps used besides the watermaker, and add them to 110 amps, so you get a total for the amps that can go through the infrastructure at any one time, then double it for cable size capacity and amperage handling capacity of components.

Say the total of other 12v items on all at once adds up to 40 amps, then 40+110 = 150 amps, so safe cool running of everything would then be building infrastructure for at least 300 amp cable, connectors, etc.

Frankly though, I'd rather go 48v DC, as the amps then are down to less than 30, and 'total other' would go from 40 to 10.

40 amps through a 48v system using 170 amp infrastructure, means nothing should overheat or wear out (total kw available for electrical gear then is just under 2kw, and your watermaker would take under 1.4kw).

Obviously 24v is ok, but the advantages of 48v systems for DC are so pronounced for reliability and long service life, I am amazed it hasn't become the standard (I am really chuffed I managed to get my hands on a heavy duty 48v 8kw/24kw 230v pure sine wave inverter, for example, I didn't think I would be able to find one).

[stephanevoirol]

Hello...I'm still thinking on which water maker to buy yet Raiman is close to convince me especially after Huggi21 message. Nevertheless, I have a question regarding the generator I would use. I have a Yamaha 2000i and I don't know if it could start up the electric one or not. On the brochure I got from Rainman in Miami recent boat show it says that the Honda generator is fine for the start up of the unit yet nobody knows about the Yamaha.....does anybody know?
thank you

[Huggi21]

Hi, In response to your question about using a Yamaha 2000 to power the electric version of Rainman , no problem with your generator as the pump runs at 1300w ,we only use the Honda 2000 as a guide as this tends to be the most popular generator on board cruising boats, if you are in The windward island region this year ,you can always call by with your generator to my boat and I would happily give you a demo using your generator to run the unit.
PS : Its a 220v unit on my boat,

[Rainman]

The Rainman 220V/50Hz system will run fine on the Yamaha 220V version. However the Rainman 110V/60Hz system will NOT start on the Yamaha 110V version. Although the average power output of the Yamaha is sufficient, it is incapable of providing sufficient power to start the motor turning. Sorry if this has caused confusion.

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by stephanevoirol

Hello...I'm still thinking on which water maker to buy yet Raiman is close to convince me especially after Huggi21 message. Nevertheless, I have a question regarding the generator I would use. I have a Yamaha 2000i and I don't know if it could start up the electric one or not. On the brochure I got from Rainman in Miami recent boat show it says that the Honda generator is fine for the start up of the unit yet nobody knows about the Yamaha.....does anybody know?
thank you

While the Honda 2000 will easily start the 1.0hp motor used in our 20 and 33GPH water makers, the Yamaha 2000 will not. Oh I know the tech specs say it will, the Yamaha tec folks will say "anything the Honda can do we can do better" but real life testing says no.

Here is a link to download our $5250 33GPH water maker manual if you would like to review the tech specs.
www.cruiserowaterandpower.com/uploads/sm30.pdf

And to the chagrin of many, I'm here 7 days a week if you have any questions pretty much during my waking hours. The world of smart phone email and thumb typing from my bunk aboard the boat, like I'm doing now, make it pretty easy.

Cheers