US Navy Jet Wash

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by jimbunyard

According to the registration number in the pictures, the ship is the USNS Fall River. It is not officially part of the US Navy, as it is (supposedly) unarmed, non-commissioned and operated by a civilian crew.

MarineTraffic puts her at Olongapo, RP (Subic Bay?).

Nonetheless, I think they deserve the UUAA (Ultimate Ugly American Award) for such shenanigans. Should make S/V Zatara sit up and take notice...

All correct, they docked alongside the inside pier at Subic Dry Dock and use civilian contractors to operate, but under USN control..

They have been coming to Subic Dry Dock for years which is owned by a US Guam Marine Corp for drydocking and numerous repairs

Australian Austal Shipyard and US Military have a tight relationship and have gone into a joint venture here, buying the huge Hanjin Shipyard in Subic, which looked like it was going to the Chinese.


https://youtu.be/SlYwLXSLADw

Latest info is that it is now a done deal

https://youtu.be/uGlBi5cnqL8

https://www.stripes.com/news/pacific...pyard-1.633908

As to them taking responsibility, the first time they self docked last year in sane place, they did a lot of damage, sinking docks/ breaking gangways,.
Ocean Gecko put in a claim with military liaison, then told to go after Subic Drydock who just shrugged their shoulders and ignored it.

Different rules outside USA!

[boatman1]

So, Pelagic, in retrospect, would you have moved your boat to a different spot away from that beast? One never knows quite how to interpret a warning until you’ve had the opportunity to observe the event: most of the time it’s much ado about nothing, but sometimes........

[TomThumb]

Military Sealift Command, employing government civilian mariners operates these Expeditionary Fast Transports.

So, not a 'naval officer'. As I'm one of those, however, I can say that there will be three aspects to this master's choice to berth unassisted.

1. One is operational, these craft need to be able to go to austere berths and indeed alongside expeditionary causeways, pontoons and barges in a seaway which may be anchored or rafted alongside larger ships. There will be no tugs to assist. That is about training to maintain competencies and currency.

2. The second is cost. Tugs are charged for unless at your own base or included in a standing support contract at a port you routinely operate from. It's unclear if they would be here, but as every taxpayer's $ counts, probably not except in emergency.

3. The third is 'good seamanship'. Loss of propulsion/ control, wind, berth and swinging room and proximity of other vessels and infrastructure (which you might damage or might damage you) are all factors considered in the berthing plan.

So, do the first two override the need to be a good neighbour?

As someone who has commanded powerful warships, we prefer to be independent of the port because it enhances our shiphandling and we have layers of contingency planned in (handling on one engine/shaft/jet, emergency anchoring policy and techniques, redundant systems poised to take over when primary ones fail etc). But we still take tugs in some ports. I would insist on having one on standby (usually an SOP in most port calls) and looking at the pictures, would not have chosen to subject small craft so close astern to this.

For me, this case is one of arrogance or laziness exacerbated by the location allowing you to get away with it.

[JPA Cate]

Most important of all, kudos to Pelagic for the essential storm protection he gave his vessel. He is under lockdown as part of the Philippines' Covid 19 program, so leaving would have been politically fraught. He anticipated what could possibly go wrong, and created effective protection.

Good on him. Chapeau!

Ann

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Creedence

I’m surprised a Navy officer would opt to dock in a manner that does not best mitigate the potential for damage to nearby boats and facilities.

I know it would seem daunting, but there is a way to get restitution from the USG if that vessel caused any damage. That’s done through the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA).

Interesting snippet from the first linked article:
"The ships are operated by 26 civilian mariners who report to Norfolk-based Military Sealift Command."


I'm surprised that the local harbour authorities would allow that behaviour.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by boatman1

So, Pelagic, in retrospect, would you have moved your boat to a different spot away from that beast? One never knows quite how to interpret a warning until you’ve had the opportunity to observe the event: most of the time it’s much ado about nothing, but sometimes........

Good question and in retrospect I certainly would have moved, if possible, knowing the incredible force of water hitting the full keel and heeling us over about 35°

But my Main Engine , Gen and engine room plumbing was all disconnected and papered for detail painting during this continued Port lockdown for pleasure craft.

Also, as I was already on standby for Typhoon conditions by laying out to the bitter ends both anchors. I thought I would be well prepared by doubling lines and running out 50 m of heavy beach line to starboard side and spare Genoa sheet to Superyacht on port side.

Little did I know that the down force of the 4 mostly neutral buckets, would blast the bottom and dislodge my 2 well soaked and set anchors sideways.

Those last minute 2 lines running from my stern quarters , quite frankly saved me!

My warning is that this was much worse than any Typhoon and more akin to Tsunami forces, which I think is incredibly arrogant and irresponsible of US navy to not consider.

Every other Navy Ship and much larger cargo ships are slotted in there quietly by two experienced ship docking tugs, without drama.
When I look at those photos taken of me on the bow I shudder to think of my fate if my main lines let go and I was thrown into those waters


.

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by StuM

Interesting snippet from the first linked article:
"The ships are operated by 26 civilian mariners who report to Norfolk-based Military Sealift Command."


I'm surprised that the local harbour authorities would allow that behaviour.

So true Stu and TomThumb's comment...is right on the mark !

"For me, this case is one of arrogance or laziness exacerbated by the location allowing you to get away with it."

While I support the US Navy mission, bad seamanship is bad seamanship and managers of US owned Subic Dry Dock tell me they have asked them before to throttle down and use the two standby tugs.

But the captains are more interested in full throttle practice than safety.

I have even more damming video of how long they kept the Jet wash going after already being tied up and forces on surrounding docks

Reason apparently being to synchronize their control system

Tempted to show, but it would be too political to release as would be the photos of dead fish killed by thier wash!

[AKA-None]

Not a military boat. Not a military crew.

[toolbar]

Originally Posted by AKA-None

Not a military boat. Not a military crew.

Sure looks like one for me. And if it is operated on behalf of the US army and paid for by the US army through one of their "subsidaries", they shouldn't be allowed to pass the buck.

If the US chooses to contract mercenaries for a job instead of using their own soldiers, that still makes them responsible for the actions.

Those thrusters seem to be about 10m away from Pelagic's boat.

Paul

[Nicholson58]

If this can be mitigated using tugs then that should be done. Unacceptable to bottom scour, blow everyone’s anchors and probably moorings out of the bottom let alone damage to marine environment.

[rgranger]

.... and what sort of environmental damage does this do to the seabed as it comes into port?

[NaClyDog]

Originally Posted by rgranger

.... and what sort of environmental damage does this do to the seabed as it comes into port?

I think it's pretty safe to say they don't care and will not be losing any sleep over that matter.

[slipaway]

Since it has been mentioned several times, just to clarify: USNS vessels are operated by the Military Sealift Command as unarmed auxiliary support vessels owned by the US Navy (so they are Navy ships) and manned by civilian government employees though some USNS ships include a small military complement to carry out communication and special mission functions, or for force protection. Even though they are not warships, they are US government public vessels. There are lots of them: https://www.msc.navy.mil/inventory/ Just to make things more complicated, there are also US government vessels operated by the US Army! Coast Guard cutters (those named as USCGC) are also US government vessels and for the most part are also warships under international law - there are some smaller "USCGC" vessels commanded by enlisted personnel that are not. Lot's of government owned vessels out there.

Poor seamanship is never excusable regardless of private, public, warship or not! Damage caused by USNS vessels can be pursued as claims but it can get complicated as there are several federal laws involved- not to mention the bureaucracy!

[thruska]

Originally Posted by boatman1

So, Pelagic, in retrospect, would you have moved your boat to a different spot away from that beast? One never knows quite how to interpret a warning until you’ve had the opportunity to observe the event: most of the time it’s much ado about nothing, but sometimes........

X2, i would have watched away from the dockage. Ive seen these beauties at dock in Mobile Alabama AUSTAL yard and on manuvers in the Gulf of Mexico.
Some of you just got a hard on for trimarans, lol
Your stress and overwork could more easily been avoided in my opinion 👍😇

[Pelagic]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

If this can be mitigated using tugs then that should be done. Unacceptable to bottom scour, blow everyone’s anchors and probably moorings out of the bottom let alone damage to marine environment.

There were 2 tugs attending but did nothing.... These tug operators are excellent but the USN will not use them!