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Old 01-08-2018, 12:11   #16
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by rognvald View Post
Forget the rules! Unless you have lost your engine power and have called a "Securite" as you approach the channel, there is no reason for a 25 foot plus sailboat to sail a channel when you have adequate engine power(small one designs without an engine are the exception when there is not significant traffic). Hot dog racers and inconsiderate prima donnas give all sailors a bad name. They jeopardize all boating traffic. Save the sailing for the open water. Good luck and safe sailing . . . Rognvald
+1

But no need forget the rules. If trying to beat upwind in a narrow channel under sail is going to create all kinds of questionable situations, just start the noisemaker and be safe and respectful, instead. That's totally compliant with all the rules.
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:22   #17
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

2 things:
1. in the pecking order, a sailboat under sail is only higher than a power boat (not ship) that is not trolling or towing.
2. take a look at Rule 10:
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule10
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:36   #18
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by merlinuxo View Post
2 things:
1. in the pecking order, a sailboat under sail is only higher than a power boat (not ship) that is not trolling or towing.
2. take a look at Rule 10:
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule10



I may be wrong but


Rule 10 only applies to vessels within a charted Vessel Traffic Management zone.
I agree some of Rule 10 may make good sense in some channels,but Rule 10 has not been universally specified for "all channels"


Len
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Old 01-08-2018, 12:42   #19
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
How is "downbound" defined when not in a river? Like in the short, artificial channels associated with many marina entrances, or in passages like the Oakland Estuary, where both ends of the channel are open into the same body of water (SF Bay)?

Jim

Here is the Canadian version,which only applies to Can. waters.
Since thousands of miles of the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes waterway are shared by US & Can.,I wonder why Can. found it necessary to spell out Can. Mods. while on the Cdn half of the channel.


Rule (k.) stipulates inland & tidal current.


My interpretation is that if you see visible current,you give way to the vessel that is travelling with the current at that time. Tidal inlets & channels change current direction several times per day,depending on tide time. Therefore the use of downbound/upbound really means "with/against the current at that time" IMHO



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Old 01-08-2018, 15:45   #20
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
I may be wrong but


Rule 10 only applies to vessels within a charted Vessel Traffic Management zone.
I agree some of Rule 10 may make good sense in some channels,but Rule 10 has not been universally specified for "all channels"


Len

I was under the impression he was in a traffic area!
Sorry if I was mistaken.
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Old 01-08-2018, 16:02   #21
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by merlinuxo View Post
2 things:
1. in the pecking order, a sailboat under sail is only higher than a power boat (not ship) that is not trolling or towing.
2. take a look at Rule 10:
https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=Rule10
I would disagree with the trolling powerboat: Rule 3

The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls, or other fishing apparatus which restrict maneuverability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manageability.
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Old 01-08-2018, 16:35   #22
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
+1

But no need forget the rules. If trying to beat upwind in a narrow channel under sail is going to create all kinds of questionable situations, just start the noisemaker and be safe and respectful, instead. That's totally compliant with all the rules.

+1 The Rule of Common Sense!


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Old 01-08-2018, 23:01   #23
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel

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Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Some answers/caveats:
- in some channels with lots of traffic, sailing is discouraged
- not all channels have a current; anyway I don't believe that ANY downbound vessel automatically has the right-of-way over everything else upbound unless it is large enough to be physically constrained or limited in its maneuverability in that channel.

We have one short channel around here that's 400 to 500 ft across; smaller sailboats often tack their way through and they go side to side... and traffic manages to avoid them. Waterways aren't the I-75.


I don't intend to hit anything, haven't yet, and our boat can turn on a dime, so if I'm sailing where I oughttta be sailing, I will stand on, and be deliberate in my moves and signals, til a collision seems likely if I don't yield. Motorboats have far more options than a boat under sail; etiquette (and rules) suggest that they need to keep clear.

If the winds are too light/variable, I will motor through. At a minimum I will have the outboard down and ready to start at short notice.
All well & good, providing the other skipper's know the rules. Unfortunately, that is not always the case. Many small power boat operators bought their boat at the boat show & figure it's no different to taking a car off the lot. eg: "You pays your money, turns the key, & away you go". It's then you have to fall back on the final rule which says: "whenever a collision appears imminent, it is the responsibility of all skippers to take whatever action is required to avoid the collision" or words to that effect.
Of course, that doesn't apply to skippers playing chicken on the race course.
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Old 06-08-2018, 08:53   #24
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
Here is the Canadian version,which only applies to Can. waters.
Since thousands of miles of the St. Lawrence-Great Lakes waterway are shared by US & Can.,I wonder why Can. found it necessary to spell out Can. Mods. while on the Cdn half of the channel.


Rule (k.) stipulates inland & tidal current.
Note the Canadian rule applies only where both vessels are power-driven.
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Old 06-08-2018, 09:51   #25
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by deblen View Post
I wonder why Can. found it necessary to spell out Can. Mods. while on the Cdn half of the channel.

Could be the same reasons the Americans did it. (US Inland Rules)
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Old 13-08-2018, 09:16   #26
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

In court after the collision the government attorney will ask you “ at what point did you realize there was a risk of collision” ?
You say you never were at risk then it could not have hapoenef. So again when did you .... first see ... you answer you didn’t see it 😳. Your dead failure to keep proper look out !!
If you saw the risk WHAT APPROPRIATE ACTION DID YOU TAKE.
Starting motor heading in to beach or dropping anchor might save yours butt. Someone is going to be looking at a big payoff because you liked to sail the Chanel to prove your sailimgbnacho 🤪In court after the collision the government attorney will ask you “ at what point did you realize there was a risk of collision” ?
You say you never were at risk then it could not have hapoenef. So again when did you .... first see ... you answer you didn’t see it 😳. Your dead failure to keep proper look out !!
If you saw the risk WHAT APPROPRIATE ACTION DID YOU TAKE.
Starting motor heading in to beach or dropping anchor might save yours butt. Someone is going to be looking at a big payoff because you liked to sail the Chanel to prove your sailimgbnacho 🤪
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Old 13-08-2018, 11:39   #27
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

I've been sailing the Oakland Estuary/Port of Oakland area for several years now. Mostly I motor out (about 5 NM) before raising sails because we're trying to get somewhere in the bay and we're head to wind the whole way. On any given weekend, there are kayakers/SUPers, all sizes of sailboats short tacking (many of which have students or newbies at the helm), power boats of all types (some going way too fast), tugs, tall ships, ferries, and large cargo vessels that need to take up the whole turning basin in the middle of it all. Few boats abide by the rule to stay to starboard of the channel and short tacking is done. No one ever signals and almost all are "breaking" some other kind of rule, but everyone seems to be pretty good about watching what's going on around them. The Coast Guard are based there, too, but I rarely see them except transiting back to their base and they seem to only stop boaters (and even then, rarely) during the week that I've noticed. It is mayhem to watch on the weekends, but somehow it seems to work. It's amazing to listen to Ch 16 during Fleet Week on the bay! IMO, the rules provide guidance on what we can expect in real life, and they provide fodder for the lawyers when things go wrong.
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Old 13-08-2018, 11:51   #28
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Re: The etiquitte of tacking in a channel--US Inland Rules

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Originally Posted by CaptTom View Post
+1

But no need forget the rules. If trying to beat upwind in a narrow channel under sail is going to create all kinds of questionable situations, just start the noisemaker and be safe and respectful, instead. That's totally compliant with all the rules.

This is a Rule 2 based approach, and I think it's spot on.



HOWEVER, it also possible to tack up a narrow channel WITHOUT creating "questionable situations" -- by application of good seamanship and respecting Rule 9. I do it even in my large cruiser just because I love to sail, and I totally understand why day sailers won't want to start their outboards.


If they will avoid IMPEDING traffic which can only navigate in the narrow channel, as they are required to do under Rule 9, then everything will be fine. This can be achieved almost always simply by timing the tacks right, or luffing up a bit once in a while to let other traffic get by. The problem starts when sailors get it in their heads that they have some kind of "right of way", which they interpret as giving them some kind of privilege to tack willy nilly and let others worry about collision avoidance. It don't work like that.
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