Sailing Downwind Offshore - how to stop rolling ?

[mawtty]

On a Broardreach I like to pole out the jib to windward and sheet in the main.
the sheeted main catches the wind from clew to luff and holds the yacht over to leward. It also directs wind into the jib/genoa which provides the main drive force. Very comfortable. Mine is a 33 ft deepkeel sloop.
Shades od Night.

[captmikem]

I was coming across the Atlantic once, a friend had met there left roughly the same time out of the Canaries. Once we made the turn down near Cape Verdi we had a pretty steady wind of 20 to 24 kts, pretty much downwind. We would talk on the radio a few times a day and my friend mentioned he was rolling like crazy. I said we were doing fine and asked what sails he had up. He said he had a reefed main and his jib on a pole. I had a full main and a 130 out on the pole. I said, why not shake out that reef and see if that helps. He did and the next day he said it was a much more comfortable ride.

Rolling really increases if you are underpowered. I hear of people reefing at night and cannot understand that. Carry the sail for the wind.

M

[cal40john]

Sorry, but now for some unhelpful advice!

paravanes -
https://www.powerandmotoryacht.com/m...bilizer-option

fin stabilizers -
https://www.skf.com/group/industries...hoCpdMQAvD_BwE

gyro stabilized -
https://www.seakeeper.com/

[Viking Sailor]

Safe Sailing in the Trades - The Twizzle Rig




https://youtu.be/inpr3r3Fw18

[garyfdl]

A few members have mentioned (and shown) twin headsail setups. Although I have no direct experience, I can remember hearing or reading years ago, that the intent of a 'solent rig' was to be able to run two headsails at once, easily, and done to reduce rolling downwind. Maybe worth looking into?

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by dougweibel

If your setup allows try sailing a quite deep angle with two headsails flown wing-on-wing. If you have a pole, use it on whichever side will tend to be a bit upwind. You will find when flying two headsails wing-on-wing that the lack of a gap between the sails tends to stabilize them much better than if you were wing-on-wing with a headsail and main, so you can tolerate more rolling without slatting. If you are concerned about the main not providing backwards tension on the mast use a tight topping lift and mainsheet. Or, you can fly the main with it sheeted tight to center though this may tend to disturb the flow to the headsails and make it more difficult to keep them happy. In some conditions this setup will allow you to make better VMG than sailing jibing angles and taking waves very near directly from behind may alleviate your rolling.

Hi, barnakiel,

What dougweibel wrote is king of how we limit rolling. We have often put in 2 out of 3 reefs, and then over-trim the main, but not all the way to the centerline of the boat, just bring it in enough that the wind can get over it to the leeward headsail. (yes, fuss with it till it gets better) Both our headsails are on rollers. It does not eliminate rolling, but uses the mainsail as a roll dampener.

Rather than travelling DDW, you may find your body likes the motion better if you head up till the apparent wind's around 160 deg. (with 180 being ddw).

Then you'll be gybing downwind, but on a trip of 20 days or so, gybing once a day isn't too bad. In our case, we have preventers run permanently to our boom, so we have controlled gybes, and both headsails are on rollers... Sometimes we use just one headsail, and it's okay that way, too. Sometimes you want more sail area, others, there's more than enough.

In over 40, I'd be doing it with just part of the headsail poled out, and 3 reefs, still using the main for a bit of stabilizing... Or take down the main, and just use a headsail, to make it easier for the autopilot.

Don't fish if you're feeling seasick.

Good luck with it.

Ann

[sailian89]

Twin headsails are a Great idea. If you don’t have a second grove in your headfoil, another idea…..we used to race with bloopers, a kind of second spinnaker on the leeward side. Greatly diminished roll and increased speed. You can make a like one from a second headsail if you have one aboard. Fly it loosed luff upside down. That’s right, head tacked to the deck, tack on the halyard and sheet from the clew through a block as far aft as possible. Won a few long distance races this way.

[barnakiel]

Thank you everybody. I will do more experiments this time across. I will also have more fore sails to test (our boat by default has only a big genoa + small jib (inner stay) + main).


I decided to upgrade to an extra long (telescopic) pole too. This will give us more combinations to try out.


I wish everyone safe and lovely passages in all 2022 !!!


barnakiel

[Tetepare]

Can you run an asymmetrical? We have a 150% and there was a big difference in speed and stability between that and the spin.

[clakiep]

Steer 10 to 15 degrees off straight downwind, have the main wide open with the boom secured, and fly the jib a bit tighter than the apparent wind angle suggests on the same side. The roling will be more regulary and always more to the leeward side. The tighter jib will bring the boat back on course after having the stern lifted by a following wave. See if wind direction matches with direction of the waves.

Capt. Claus - ocean tramp of the eighties

[lo2jones]

It’s called sailing on a broad reach…How many people pay attention to the polar diagrams for your boat? Just wondering. They may not be exacting for your own rig, but usually there is one that gets close enough, if you dig around enough and find it.

[LakeSuperior]

Minimize weight aloft to the nth degree. 1lb removed from the top of a 40 ft mast is like removing 40 lbs from the base of the mast.

Also, fly two head sails or a headsail and cutter. They will tend to stabilize (oppose) the added lift generated from the roll rate.

[lo2jones]

Be assured, there is no “cure” for the rolling when sailing directly downwind. Notice that folks proposing solutions use some form of the expression “tend to” a lot. The faster you sail down wind, the hull dynamics will work in your favor, slower will cause more roll. That’s one of the things using the polar diagram does for us…for folks new to sailing, the polar diagram shows the most efficient point of sail to choose for fastest course(s) to the destination. In many cases sailing on a broad reach gets one to the destination faster than directly downwind. Whoever proposed poling the jib to windward is barking up the right tree!

[donradcliffe]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

Minimize weight aloft to the nth degree. 1lb removed from the top of a 40 ft mast is like removing 40 lbs from the base of the mast.



Also, fly two head sails or a headsail and cutter. They will tend to stabilize (oppose) the added lift generated from the roll rate.

Coming from a racing background, I was going to do this to my cruising boat, but then I got to thinking about dynamic stability when hit by a large breaking wave and decided that preventing a rollover was more important.

[smacksman]

Originally Posted by Viking Sailor

Safe Sailing in the Trades - The Twizzle Rig




https://youtu.be/inpr3r3Fw18

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Haha! that's my ugly mug!


We found the twizzle rig stopped the dreaded pendulum roll that would go on for hours with other rigs. Nothing will stop the roll off a big swell.
The biggest advantages we found in the Trades was the lack of chafe and the ability of reefing/shaking out single handed from the cockpit at night without calling the watch below. Can also be set for a broad reach allowing benefit from main/mizzen/mizzen stays'l if you want all that extra work for the crew. But who wants to rush in the glorious Trades?