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Old 17-02-2022, 17:33   #91
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Re: Right Whales

https://www.notmar.gc.ca/publication...s-May-2018.pdf


https://www.google.com/search?q=righ...m5nlaKb36eMw5M




https://www.westpandi.com/publicatio...eduction-rule/
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Old 18-02-2022, 04:59   #92
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Re: Right Whales

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Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
It is possible to go fishing without a thousand horsepower running flat out over the bounding waves so that tourists can get back before cocktail hour.

A zillion square miles of ocean.

We cannot, as a society, seem to grasp the concept of ďshareĒ.

This ďskipperĒ knows there might be right whales .

He knows, or ought to know, that at the speed he is going, not a single device or trained observer, can spot a Right Whale at anything near that vessel speed in time to avoid collision.

So what rules apply.

Proper lookout given the circumstances.

Well, the Circumstances are not exactly extraordinary...are they.

I learned a lot sitting with my Dad who was an Admirality attorney while we listened to arguments presented to court.

This skipper violated two rules and I wish all our members to be aware of their responsibilities....not just to the law , but their moral responsibility to proceed with a proper lookout ...under applicable conditions...and to keep speed low enough to avoid collision.

The Law is crystal clear.

I wished this skipper...Iíll avoid insulting Captains by placing him at the same level...I wish this skipper had the decency to go down with the ship.

The manatee crew snubs their whiskered noses at this distasteful man and hopes the authorities pursue actions against all those who are responsible.

Captain Mark

Who grew up in New Bedford, whale killing capital of the world.


You mentioned a zillion square miles of ocean and only a very few right whales passing through this area, and yet now the skipper is Ďdistastefulí for not foreseeing a once in a million event that he obviously never wanted to happen because it endangered all aboard, including himself, and sunk his boat. That doesnít sound very logical or very fair to me. What once in a million possibility are you willing to inconvenience yourself and alter your behavior for? Itís not like he deliberately drove his boat into a pod of them and just expected them to get out of his way.

I wish whale strikes didnít happen too but unless weíre willing to forbid any boat on the ocean from traveling above about 10 knots, once in a great while a whale will get hit and a few of that number will be killed. When so many other boaters are also traveling on the ocean at speeds high enough to hurt or kill a whale, itís not very fair to single out the very few who have the misfortune to collide with something thatís extremely difficult or impossible to see. These accidents remind me of moose/car collisions here in Maine that frequently end in the mooseís legs being broken so it has to be put down and the car totaled and sometimes the cars occupants are killed. Nobody wants that but short of having a nighttime speed limit of about 20mph in all of northern Maine these accidents are unavoidable. Moose are dark colored and they sometimes step into the road (just like whales surface) at the most inopportune time.

A ďproper lookoutĒ is generally considered to allow you to see things Ďaboveí the water, not a creature swimming a few feet underwater that may have been impossible for any human to see even if he somehow knew just where to look.
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Old 18-02-2022, 07:19   #93
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Re: Right Whales

The sports fishing industry believes they need to speed through the limited area where Right Whales are known to be. They believe any speed limit zones would destroy their business. Tourists money is the great political force behind any reasonable compromise.
No one in the Federal Government is calling for all vessels in all areas to be limited in speed. We have manatee zones. Not enough, but thatís another matter.
What is clear is the law.
Did the skipper know a risk of collision existed ...yes...and did he change his speed. No. The passengers in his vessel would have a good case in Federal Court.
Professional mariners know itís simple. You hit something, itís your fault. The courts have time and time again, have found against the captain because the entire responsibility for passenger safety rests on his expertise.Moose car collisions? I donít see moose on the endangered species list. I donít see passenger air bags on boats. There are no road signs warning Right Whales might be ahead. In your car, you get a ticket for speeding and you pay a fine. If your a Captain, they flog your a hearing or in court and then rip up your license. You ought to do a few trips on the ICW and tell me what you feel like when some sports fisherman comes full speed straight at you and the creek is real narrow. Then youíll get an idea of manatee life.
Compromise on something like manatee zones for Right Whales?
Not in Florida. The sport fish industry is big tourist dollars. In the end, thatís always what it boils down to...money.
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Old 18-02-2022, 08:17   #94
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Re: Right Whales

As a professional mariner in a zone where whales are known to congregate -- and are reported, when they're around -- the charter boat skipper should have been paying closer attention. He lost his boat, but was probably insured. Maybe his new boat will be for whale-watching. Right whales are NOT easy to see. We were heading into Provincetown MA, on port tack along the point leading up to the channel a few hundred yards off the beach when one surfaced about 20' off our starboard bow, parallel to us, apparently feeding. The broad black back (no dorsal fin) was smoother than the surrounding water, but not much, if any, higher, and only visible for about ten seconds. He (?) slipped under the waves and came up again once before we lost sight of him. If we hadn't been paying attention we'd never have seen it.
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Old 18-02-2022, 14:23   #95
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Re: Right Whales

The issue is speed. Even my blubber butt crew can escape a sailboat. The industry has fought against any slow speed zones for whales just as they fought against manatee zones. Ask anyone who has a kayak, a row or skull boat or a paddle boat about the behavior of sports fishing boats.
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Old 18-02-2022, 17:58   #96
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Re: Right Whales

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Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
The issue is speed. Even my blubber butt crew can escape a sailboat. The industry has fought against any slow speed zones for whales just as they fought against manatee zones. Ask anyone who has a kayak, a row or skull boat or a paddle boat about the behavior of sports fishing boats.

Mark


Thereís no way you can require all motorboats to go as slow as a sailboat out in deep water where whales are and thatís what it would take to be able for boaters to have a reasonable chance to see and avoid a right whale thatís lazily swimming just beneath the surface and even then thereís no guarantee even a vigilant helmsman would see one in time. Not going to happen. Iím very familiar with some sport fish boats being rude and seemingly oblivious to the effects of their own wake in close quarters, so Iíll take a pass on your suggestion to ask others but their ďbehaviorĒ is not what this thread is about anyway. Weíre also not talking about excessive speed in shallow zones near shore where manatees and kayakers are usually found, but rather out in the ďzillions of square milesĒ (your words) of open ocean where whales live.

Unfortunately, these whales range far and wide and there arenít very many of them and they donít have a distinctive dorsal fin that sticks up in the air when theyíre very near the surface, so itís very difficult to ever spot one. Therefore, even though Iím sympathetic to the plight of this endangered species, based on my own difficulty in spotting them I canít buy into just assuming that someone who collided with one of them wasnít paying close enough attention or was doing something wrong. Iíve seen lots of finbacks and minkes and some humpbacks but the only time Iíve ever spotted a couple right whales was on a glassy calm morning south of Nantucket. Iím sure Iíve been close to several more but never saw them.
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Old 18-02-2022, 19:36   #97
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Re: Right Whales

When I've seen right whales, it has been either because I saw the distinctive v-shaped spout (much easier to detect than a fin), or the little flock of small seabirds presumably also eating the krill the whales are eating. And it has always been in the places we know where right whales go.

I'm not saying they won't go anywhere else; I'm just saying that I've seen humpbacks, probably juveniles out "to discover the world," even in Boston Harbor, and all up and down the coast. Right whales I have only seen in Cape Cod Bay. Humpbacks are usually hurrying along to get somewhere, or launching themselves out of the water; right whales are tooling along at 2.5 knots, following the krill.

There is a note on the chart telling everyone that this is a right whale critical habit. So in that particular body of water, we're a lot more vigilant about what's around us. Then again, I'm a sailboat and I'm out for a good time, I'm not working or hurrying anywhere. So I can't judge what I don't know.
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Old 18-02-2022, 20:35   #98
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Re: Right Whales

What if we considered Right whales like semi-sunk containers? The Coast Guard puts out a notice to Mariners about containers lost overboard, so people slow down and keep a sharp lookout in the area they've been reported. Makes sense. When Right whales are spotted the Coast Guard puts out a notice too. As we learned above, hitting one can sink you, so people should slow down and keep a sharp lookout in the area they've been reported. Makes sense.
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Old 19-02-2022, 00:58   #99
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Re: Right Whales

Quote:
Originally Posted by jtsailjt View Post
There’s no way you can require all motorboats to go as slow as a sailboat out in deep water where whales are and that’s what it would take to be able for boaters to have a reasonable chance to see and avoid a right whale that’s lazily swimming just beneath the surface and even then there’s no guarantee even a vigilant helmsman would see one in time. Not going to happen. I’m very familiar with some sport fish boats being rude and seemingly oblivious to the effects of their own wake in close quarters, so I’ll take a pass on your suggestion to ask others but their “behavior” is not what this thread is about anyway. We’re also not talking about excessive speed in shallow zones near shore where manatees and kayakers are usually found, but rather out in the “zillions of square miles” (your words) of open ocean where whales live.

Unfortunately, these whales range far and wide and there aren’t very many of them and they don’t have a distinctive dorsal fin that sticks up in the air when they’re very near the surface, so it’s very difficult to ever spot one. Therefore, even though I’m sympathetic to the plight of this endangered species, based on my own difficulty in spotting them I can’t buy into just assuming that someone who collided with one of them wasn’t paying close enough attention or was doing something wrong. I’ve seen lots of finbacks and minkes and some humpbacks but the only time I’ve ever spotted a couple right whales was on a glassy calm morning south of Nantucket. I’m sure I’ve been close to several more but never saw them.

So far,a 10kt speed limit is only being enforced in Can. & US waters during certain times-when Right Whales have been spotted in an area.
The CG should be able to update you on current local spottings via CH 16. It has been suggested that boats/ships in the area should report whale sightings on CH 16.
There is also the Right Whale live location map.

Right Whales are the serious concern,as they are highly endangered,difficult to see & slow moving.

Humpbacks,Fin,Minke,etc.are usually much easier to spot visually,except at night.
The non-boating general public(voters) love whales and other cute sea creatures. We boaters would be wise to put some effort into spreading the word & "educating" other boaters. We are cutting our own throat if we don't IMHO.
Cheers/Len


Pls read these US rules. I presume they are still in effect-(since 2010)


https://www.westpandi.com/publicatio...eduction-rule/


Please report all sightings to:
https://apps-nefsc.fisheries.noaa.go...eWithText.html
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Old 19-02-2022, 01:05   #100
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Re: Right Whales

Please report all whale sightings to :
https://apps-nefsc.fisheries.noaa.go...eWithText.html


Download Right Whale App https://play.google.com/store/apps/d...hl=en_US&gl=US
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Old 19-02-2022, 04:56   #101
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Re: Right Whales

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Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
Ropeless technology will make a huge difference. Most right whales have already become entangled once in their lives. I think the figure is somewhere near 90%.

Ropeless technology works and the resistance from the lobster industry will of course be about money. They catch every lobster at least once before it can grow to legal size. This fact just proves the extreme fishing pressure which characterizes the fishery. The industry has seen ever increasing numbers of pots and larger boats. It takes a lot of money just to enter the fishery.

I was born and worked in the fishing industry in New Bedford so I am very pro fishing but I can hear the howling about gear costs already beginning in Maine.

The Feds could help but donít believe lobster fishermen in Maine are not capable of getting money to do this...on one hand, they appeal to the public with the slogan ďwe fish for all the peopleĒ meaning the people who donít have boats or that donít live in lobster land. Well the right whales do belong to all the people and so do all the lobsters. Ropeless lobster fishing is proven science and technology. Itís just the right thing to do.

Before your next lobster dinner, ask if the lobster was caught with ropeless. Feedback from consumers is a powerful agent of change.

The cost of ropeless technology will drop as more units are sold and pressure applied by consumers. Someday...it will be the blue crab industry.

The stronger the voices of the consumer, the faster this will happen.

Happy trails to you

Captain Mark and his ďwe donít use monofilament line to floss our teeth so please

dispose it responsiblyĒ manatee crew.


Before you write something like this you should probably at least take a glance at a chart of the Maine coast, most of which is dominated by long peninsulas and islands. This area is where the vast majority of Maines lobster fishing takes place, and fortunately for the whales, they seem to prefer to swim out in the open deeper water so thereís not a lot of overlap. Whales are not becoming entangled in the fishing gear along the Maine coast inside islands or between peninsulas. Ropeless lobster traps might be useful in Massachusetts or southern Maine below Portland or New Brunswick due to their different topography, or even for the few lobstermen in Maine who venture further offshore, but along most of the Maine coast their use would have no impact on Right whales simply because the lobstermen arenít fishing way out where the whales are found. Come sailing up here sometime and this will become obvious to you. If you head out to where you might have at least a chance to see a large whale, that long before you arrive in this area, youíll realize that you havenít seen a lobster buoy in quite awhile. In all my decades of boating between Rockland and MDI Iíve seen only 2 minke whales swimming in amongst the islands where almost all lobstermen fish and Iíve never even heard of a finback or humpback or right whale being anywhere in this area. If you want to see one of them you need to go out to the very deep water outside of Matinicus or Mount Desert Rock.
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Old 19-02-2022, 05:07   #102
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Re: Right Whales

Quote:
Originally Posted by deblen View Post
So far,a 10kt speed limit is only being enforced in Can. & US waters during certain times-when Right Whales have been spotted in an area.
The CG should be able to update you on current local spottings via CH 16. It has been suggested that boats/ships in the area should report whale sightings on CH 16.
There is also the Right Whale live location map.

Right Whales are the serious concern,as they are highly endangered,difficult to see & slow moving.

Humpbacks,Fin,Minke,etc.are usually much easier to spot visually,except at night.
The non-boating general public(voters) love whales and other cute sea creatures. We boaters would be wise to put some effort into spreading the word & "educating" other boaters. We are cutting our own throat if we don't IMHO.
Cheers/Len

Pls read these US rules. I presume they are still in effect-(since 2010)
https://www.westpandi.com/publicatio...eduction-rule/

Please report all sightings to:
https://apps-nefsc.fisheries.noaa.go...eWithText.html
Thanks, deblen!

Latest Right Whale Observations [Canada]https://whalemap.ocean.dal.ca/

Report SIGHTING in Canadahttps://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/species-es...age01-eng.html
Report in SIGHTING USAhttps://apps-nefsc.fisheries.noaa.go...ight_Whale.pdf

Report Dead or Distressed [Stranded]
Canada https://marineanimals.ca/
USAhttps://www.fisheries.noaa.gov/new-e...anding-network
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Old 19-02-2022, 05:26   #103
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Re: Right Whales

Manateeman born in the fishing city of New Bedford.
Once the Whaling center of the world,
Home Port for his vessel. Kennebunk Maine.
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Old 19-02-2022, 11:58   #104
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Re: Right Whales

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Originally Posted by Manateeman View Post
Manateeman born in the fishing city of New Bedford.

Once the Whaling center of the world,

Home Port for his vessel. Kennebunk Maine.

Iím not discussing Massachusetts or Kennebunk (far southern Maine with a coastline more similar to NH or Mass) lobster fishermen, but rather the vast majority of Maines lobstermen who fish north of Portland amongst the many peninsulas and islands where large whales are not found. Ropeless trap mandates that also applied to them would put most of them out of business and make the ocean no safer for any right or finback or humpback whales. If ropeless traps are to be part of the solution of preventing harm to right whales, any mandates should only apply to lobstermen who fish in areas where whales are actually found, NOT to those who fish close to shore and around islands and up narrow inlets between peninsulas where there are no whales. Just like manatees, though we may not know where they all are at any particular time, we do know areas where they at least occasionally are found, and areas that they avoid, and any restrictions should be fashioned with that info in mind. For any law to be effective it must be understood to be based in fact and aimed at solving a problem that is perceived as real by those the law applies to so theyíll at least grudgingly accept it. Restricting lobstermen who fish in areas where nobody has ever seen a whale will just piss them off and will hurt the credibility of those who advocate for further efforts to save other endangered species. Bad idea!
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Old 19-02-2022, 14:07   #105
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Re: Right Whales

We agree completely that any restriction to commercial fishing should be rational, have minimal impact...blah, blah, blah. We get whales are not the only ones being harmed and we are NOT tree hugging idealists.
Compromise is the guiding idea .
Somewhere between a perfect world for both sides of the table, there exists a workable solution.
This requires both sides to give in a bit.
These issues are complex. Too comple for discussions on this forum.
I just wanted you to know that Iím aware of ALL the concerns of BOTH sides.
As senior science advisor to one of the largest fishing corporations in the world, I had to know both the positions of the scientific and the commercial community.
Just because my manatee crew is consumed with perfecting a pizza bazooka does not mean they donít know what they squeak about.
The Green Frog has a flexible organic Lilly pad of dubious seaworthness and he eats flies but we find his posts to be of five star quality.
Heís not even protected under Federal Law. LOL People publish recipes for him.
I know the passengers on mr speedy boat could win a good size judgement against the owners in Federal Court and I hope they pursue it for damages. I hope the Feds will take his training wheel license away as well.
You want to cross the ocean on a windsurfer...go for it.
Donít ask me to ask my crew to endanger their lives to rescue you.
You want to run full speed in an area where there is Risk of Collision KNOWN to exist...go for it so long as you are willing to pay for the consequences of your decision if things go wrong.
Money was the motivation to go fast.
The manatee pizza bazooka might be subject to seizure by BATF but it sure would be fun in court. ...LOL.
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