Outboards and docking

[Shrew]

I wouldn't go from FWD to REV. I would definitely wait for a second or two. I replaced a shaft and coupler that was destroyed by getting wallowed out from someone horsing from FWD to REV without waiting for the rotation to slow properly.

I think your shift linkage might need to be looked at, you really shouldn't hear an inordinate amount of grinding going from N to either FWD or REV.

Docking is really about bumping into gear, then N again. Usually when I'm docking I spend more time in N than in either FWD or REV. If momentum slows too much, bump into FWD then back into N again. If coming in a little fast, then from N into REV, then back into N again. If you just cruise into the marina and slip in FWD at idle the entire time, you will absolutely be going too fast.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

I do not think the sailing school would appreciate me using this particular docking method with their boats.

I've also stopped the boat from slamming the dock by going into reverse and high reving the outboard.

There are various techniques and everyone has to develop their own.

These days I come in slow and let the bow (port side) hit the fender I have tied to the finger pier while at the same time grabbing the stern line from the piling to port.

Then I usually throw that line into the boat and step off onto the finger pier and stop the boat.

Then throw the bow lines aboard.

[Dr. D]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I wouldn't go from FWD to REV. I would definitely wait for a second or two. I replaced a shaft and coupler that was destroyed by getting wallowed out from someone horsing from FWD to REV without waiting for the rotation to slow properly.

I think your shift linkage might need to be looked at, you really shouldn't hear an inordinate amount of grinding going from N to either FWD or REV.

Docking is really about bumping into gear, then N again. Usually when I'm docking I spend more time in N than in either FWD or REV. If momentum slows too much, bump into FWD then back into N again. If coming in a little fast, then from N into REV, then back into N again. If you just cruise into the marina and slip in FWD at idle the entire time, you will absolutely be going too fast.

What he said!!

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Shrew

I think your shift linkage might need to be looked at, you really shouldn't hear an inordinate amount of grinding going from N to either FWD or REV.

Actually if you are new at it and are tentative with the shifter, you can have all sort of grinding noises.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Not trolling you, but this makes no sense to me.

Basically, the way I'm reading this is that you're saying that once the boat is moving, it's moving and there's no way to avoid hitting something other than turning.

Yet being able to control the forward motion of the boat is important. Not just for docking but for safety too. Not to mention anchoring. Or does everyone just toss the anchor overboard as they go by their chosen spot and wait for the chain to stop paying out and letting the yank turn the boat when it goes taut? And then there's picking up a mooring ball on the fly-by. (I don't really believe any of this, just making outrageously stupid examples.)

For what it's worth, the slip in question is at the shore end of the pier (what's the motorway between slips called anyway?) and I have a limited view for cross traffic when I get to the main channel. It would be nice to be able to stop and hold position in the slipway(?) if there's another boat right there rather than pulling out in front of it and causing the other guy to T-bone me or having to take evasive action.

So this isn't just for docking. It's about the guy in command and at the helm actually being in control of the boat at all times.

This all comes back to planning your route as mentioned above. If there is a situation on leaving/entering your harbour that puts you in a position where you are limited in your ability to maneuver and may pose a risk to traffic (of any size) this is where you, the operator of your vessel, pick up your radio and issue a securite. I do this most times leaving or entering our harbour as the entrance is narrow and vessels large and small come and go regularly (some quite fast) without notice. Most smaller commercial passenger vessels do this as well entering the harbour as well as cruise ships and state ferry’s (outside small boat harbours) It just gives traffic a heads up your leaving/entering and for larger vessels to stand by or contact you for more info.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Not trolling you, but this makes no sense to me.

Basically, the way I'm reading this is that you're saying that once the boat is moving, it's moving and there's no way to avoid hitting something other than turning.

Yet being able to control the forward motion of the boat is important. Not just for docking but for safety too. Not to mention anchoring. Or does everyone just toss the anchor overboard as they go by their chosen spot and wait for the chain to stop paying out and letting the yank turn the boat when it goes taut? And then there's picking up a mooring ball on the fly-by. (I don't really believe any of this, just making outrageously stupid examples.)

For what it's worth, the slip in question is at the shore end of the pier (what's the motorway between slips called anyway?) and I have a limited view for cross traffic when I get to the main channel. It would be nice to be able to stop and hold position in the slipway(?) if there's another boat right there rather than pulling out in front of it and causing the other guy to T-bone me or having to take evasive action.

So this isn't just for docking. It's about the guy in command and at the helm actually being in control of the boat at all times.

Well, despite what you would like to be the case, in typical outboard powered yachts the stopping power is not very good even when you can get it into reverse. Counting upon stopping quickly can lead to unavoidable collisions. The proper remedy is to be proactive, keep speed down to bare maneuverability (both whilst docking and in moving around in marinas and other congested places) and being aware of what is in front of you. IE, when approaching the intersection that you mention, be going slowly enough that the need for a crash stop never occurs. That's similar to what folks were suggesting upthread about entering a berth.

As to your worries about anchoring, good practice is again to employ very low speed , head to wind and wait for the boat to stop on her own before dropping the hook. This approach works under sail, too, and will possibly be part of your training in the future... it should be!

I think someone else suggested finding an unoccupied buoy somewhere and using it as a metric, approach at various speeds and see just how far you move after engaging reverse and applying full throttle. Also note how such power application affects the boat's direction of travel. On some, prop walk can really slew you around and if unprepared, that can lead to it's own problems. This sort of practice can be pretty helpful in understanding collision avoidance.

Lastly, do discuss the above with your instructor.

Jim

[Benz]

I move a heavy boat with a small outboard. I do NOT rely on reverse to stop me cold, only to slow me down. When docking, an aft-leading spring line is all-important. It is your brakes and your control.
When anchoring, I often do shove the anchor over and let the boat's momentum jerk the bow around...there was a recent long and interesting thread on this. When picking up a mooring, whether under sail or power, I get the pennant on as fast as possible. Even if I could full-stop the boat with the engine, the current at my mooring might sweep me away in a second. Usually when docking there's a wind that precludes stopping anywhere with any chance of staying put.
Best thing to do is learn to watch all the forces acting on the boat and plan your approach accordingly, so that you're always carrying way and therefore steerage until you surge that spring line taut and are parked.
I used to drive a big steel schooner which we could dead-stop with the inboard diesel. Trouble was, then you were floating in a narrow fairway with the wind blowing you down onto other more fragile boats, and you had to get way on again before you could steer. It was far better not to have to stop.

[thinwater]

Idle too high can also be a problem.

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Well, despite what you would like to be the case, in typical outboard powered yachts the stopping power is not very good even when you can get it into reverse. Counting upon stopping quickly can lead to unavoidable collisions. The proper remedy is to be proactive, keep speed down to bare maneuverability (both whilst docking and in moving around in marinas and other congested places) and being aware of what is in front of you. IE, when approaching the intersection that you mention, be going slowly enough that the need for a crash stop never occurs. That's similar to what folks were suggesting upthread about entering a berth.

As to your worries about anchoring, good practice is again to employ very low speed , head to wind and wait for the boat to stop on her own before dropping the hook. This approach works under sail, too, and will possibly be part of your training in the future... it should be!

I think someone else suggested finding an unoccupied buoy somewhere and using it as a metric, approach at various speeds and see just how far you move after engaging reverse and applying full throttle. Also note how such power application affects the boat's direction of travel. On some, prop walk can really slew you around and if unprepared, that can lead to it's own problems. This sort of practice can be pretty helpful in understanding collision avoidance.

Lastly, do discuss the above with your instructor.

Jim

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't understand how going very slowly until you crash into something is better than not crashing at all.

Yes, when the boat is stopped dead in the water it's subject to wind/current/etc that can potentially force it into a bad situation. Well, it would if you didn't do anything to prevent that from happening.

My job as helmsman is not let that happen either by natural forces or under engine power. Or at least that's what I think at this stage of my training. Hopefully I'll continue to think that way at the end of my training. In the meantime, I believe that if I'm in control of the boat when I bring it to a stop, I'm still in control of the boat. Being in control means that if, after stopping, the boat starts to drift or move in a way that endangers it or other boats, I can take steps to prevent that from continuing.

I will talk to my instructor about this.

[rbk]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't understand how going very slowly until you crash into something is better than not crashing at all.

Yes, when the boat is stopped dead in the water it's subject to wind/current/etc that can potentially force it into a bad situation. Well, it would if you didn't do anything to prevent that from happening.

My job as helmsman is not let that happen either by natural forces or under engine power. Or at least that's what I think at this stage of my training. Hopefully I'll continue to think that way at the end of my training. In the meantime, I believe that if I'm in control of the boat when I bring it to a stop, I'm still in control of the boat. Being in control means that if, after stopping, the boat starts to drift or move in a way that endangers it or other boats, I can take steps to prevent that from continuing.

I will talk to my instructor about this.

I’ve watched what you’ve been proposing many times. Captain sees a potential issue, throws the boat in reverse and slows right down, generally (from prop walk) boat slowly rotates (clockwise/rh prop) in the fairway, captain throws helm over hard to SB keeping it in reverse while boat continues to spin clockwise. Now boat is mostly perpendicular in the fairway with bow close to other boats, this is when someone on board hops up front and places fenders or grabs other boat. Now they try going forward but boat just pushes into into berthed boats. This is usually when the crowd starts to gather, captain gets frustrated and many lines, boat hooks etc come out. Plan your route avoid the above situation, a high speed crash is a crash, a low speed ‘crash’ is called docking.

[Jim Cate]

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't understand how going very slowly until you crash into something is better than not crashing at all.

The point is that most boats will not stop quickly with any significant way on... as you found out in practice. If you are going slowly, you can stop sometimes, but more importantly, it gives you time and space in which to avoid the crash you describe.

Being dependent upon a crash stop to avoid anything is a poor plan. And as RBK posts above, it often CAUSES loss of control.

You may not believe this now, but you will in time.

Doing the stopping experiment outlined upthread will be instructive for you... why not give it a try and see what you learn instead of arguing with folks who would like to help?

Jim

[Rob_P]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

The point is that most boats will not stop quickly with any significant way on... as you found out in practice. If you are going slowly, you can stop sometimes, but more importantly, it gives you time and space in which to avoid the crash you describe.

Being dependent upon a crash stop to avoid anything is a poor plan. And as RBK posts above, it often CAUSES loss of control.

You may not believe this now, but you will in time.

Doing the stopping experiment outlined upthread will be instructive for you... why not give it a try and see what you learn instead of arguing with folks who would like to help?

Jim

1. I'm not arguing, I'm trying to learn.

2. It would not be the 1st time one of my preconceived notions has turned out to be incorrect. I pride myself in believing that learning means that I can change my opinions as knowledge fills in the blanks.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Rob_P

Maybe it's just me, but I still don't understand how going very slowly until you crash into something is better than not crashing at all.

Yes, when the boat is stopped dead in the water it's subject to wind/current/etc that can potentially force it into a bad situation. Well, it would if you didn't do anything to prevent that from happening.

My job as helmsman is not let that happen either by natural forces or under engine power. Or at least that's what I think at this stage of my training. Hopefully I'll continue to think that way at the end of my training. In the meantime, I believe that if I'm in control of the boat when I bring it to a stop, I'm still in control of the boat. Being in control means that if, after stopping, the boat starts to drift or move in a way that endangers it or other boats, I can take steps to prevent that from continuing.

I will talk to my instructor about this.

What you will see is that once you've stopped the boat you are no longer in control, and it takes getting way on again to regain control. There is a certain stability in having motion--think about a bicycle: once you stop it's very hard not to topple over, but as long as you have forward movement, you're stable. You need to maintain the stability of motion in order to have control; that means not coming to a complete stop until you have a line ashore.

[kayakerChuck]

Thanks for asking questions and learning by moving electrons around! It's much easier & cheaper than learning in real boats.

About the only thing that gives control of a vessel is the rudder being moved through the water. The faster the boat is going, the faster the water is moving past the rudder, so the more steering control you have. But, with speed comes inertia. LOTS of inertia. The little bit of power available, especially from an outboard, takes time to make anything happen.

The trick, as you found, is to balance control and inertia with the conditions.

We have all been there!

The trick is the same as anything- ask questions, and LOTS of practice.

[Jimmathieson]

High thrust OB's have gears & props with more slowing power in reverse , according to Yamaha OB guy at Toronto Boat Show , remember those?