Coral Reef Status

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

No, no, no, you don't understand the modern business and regulatory world.

A few decades ago I was having a few beers with the exploration manager of an oil company for which I had just drilled a well which was a "dry" hole - no hydrocarbons. He remarked that"nothing screws up a good prospect quicker than letting a driller loose on it", I was baffled and said, "it was a good well, completed on time and under budget", his reply "I've eaten a lot of good expense account meals, enjoyed quiet a few four star hotels, and a fair bit of business class travel and good profitable remuneration whilst promoting that prospect and now you've proved there's no oil or gas in it I'm going to have to go find another".

Now this conversation was a real eye opener for me and explained a lot of baffling observations I'd perceived over many years. Of all the folks involved, starting with the start up promoter through the investor, the businessmen, geoscientists, engineers and bureaucrats the only ones really interested in finding the kero and making a profit out of selling it were the investors.

Now the oil company executives and regulators bureaucrats might not be "Machiavellian evil geniuses" but they are generally are cunning as ablution block rodents and to them a barrel in the ground is worth three in the tank because the one in the ground ensures their ongoing employment and non salary benefits. Deplete the fields, shut the business down, no more wages, expense accounts, executive jets, business trips to New York etc. and life goes to hell in a hand basket.

Now, Roosevelt was smart enough to not turn the making of the atomic bomb over to a scientist or business man during WW2, he turned it over to a mad dog engineering general of the US Army Corps of Engineers with a written order to "go build a bomb". Had they cloned Groves and we still had politicians as savvy as Roosevelt we'd all be cooking with neutrons and driving Teslas within the next eighteen months and they'd probably be subsidizing our use of electricity from the scrap sales returns from all the copper in the useless wind turbines.

This makes no sense whatsoever.

[Bowdrie]

So much of any discussions about a myriad of problems have been relegated to the extremes of discourse.
One side is shouted down as "Deniers", the other side as a bunch of "Loonies", as this goes on the real majority is somewhere in the middle sitting on their thumbs.
This is the same thing that started WW1, the "saber rattlers'" on either side prevailing while those with cooler heads were denounced.
Such statements as "The science is complete"/"There can be no questions"/"Discussions are over", that's all insanity.
We do know that close to 90% of the plastic pollution in the Pacific comes from ~7 rivers that are located in Africa, SE Asia, and China.
Thats why people in San Francisco can't use a plastic straw, more feel-good insanity.
Out of roughly 8 billion people on the planet, over half of them will go to bed hungry tonight, and over half of that 8 billion are busy cutting down every tree, bush, weed that they can to make charcoal to cook what little food they have and to try and keep warm.
What do you think that does to the release of Co2?
It releases huge amounts while at the same time reducing the plant structure that absorbs the Co2.
If you talked to those people about "Climate Emergency" they would tell you something like, "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn".
All this talk in the West over "What must be done to save the Earth" is an admission that half, (or more,) of the world's population are just "useless eaters" who can be written off by the "powers that be" that in reality are much more concerned about centralized "Control" than they are about true human quality of life for all, (they have more "quality of life" than 99.99999 of the planet,) you can see them all at COP 27, and Davos.
They will plan your life; they will decide how much energy you will be allowed to consume; they will decide what and how much of anything you will be allowed to buy.
They have figured out that "Energy" is the easiest way to control people, and as long as people can be scared and made to believe that economic activity and personal liberty must be suppressed in order to "save the planet" their work will pay off, (for them).
When people realize the truth, that the production and distribution of cheap energy and the economic benefits it provides is NOT a zero-sum equation then cooler heads might prevail.
And then perhaps those 4 billion people who go to bed hungry might feel that they too are worth as much as anybody at Davos, and they are.
Shame on the radicals of either side, one side worships the earth, the other side money.
But now the money gone has gone "Woke" and has joined up with Ghia.

[RaymondR]

Originally Posted by lestersails

This makes no sense whatsoever.

Those folks who ignore history are bound to become it's victims.

[SailOar]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

Those folks who ignore history are bound to become it's victims.

Those folks who ignore the proper way to spell "its" are bound to misspell "it's" fifty percent of the time.

[SailOar]

Vanuatu publishes draft resolution seeking climate justice at UN court

Vanuatu has published a draft UN resolution requesting an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on states’ legal obligation for climate action and the consequences of causing harm.

It requests the ICJ’s opinion on “what are the obligations of states… to ensure the protection of the climate system and other parts of present and future generations” based on a number of global treaties and principles of international law. These include the UN Charter, the UN climate convention, the Paris Agreement and the UN Convention of the Law of the Sea.

The last establishes that “states have the obligation to protect and preserve the marine environment” and must “take all measures to best reduce and control pollution of the marine environment from any source” including from land-based sources.

Secondly, the document asks the court: “what are the legal consequences under these obligations for states which, by their acts and omissions, have caused significant harm to the climate system and other parts of the environment”? The question is asked in respect to small island developing states and other nations “specially affected by or particularly vulnerable to the adverse effects of climate change” and the people affected now and in future generations.

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

(much deleted)
Such statements as "The science is complete"/"There can be no questions"/"Discussions are over", that's all insanity.
(much more deleted)

A classic propaganda ploy. No one thinks the science is complete about anything. It never can be. This is the classic denialist trope of impossible expectations - the old paper tiger. I have never heard any responsible climate scientist say that the science is complete - to suggest there cannot be anything more to learn. There always can be. And equally inane is "discussions are over". You make up ridiculous stereotypes to tar people and give the false impression that the people who deny and accept ACC are equivalent and both wrong.
It needs to be said again: The scientific debate about ACC is settled. Human-generated greenhouse gasses are raising global temperatures, acidifying the oceans, and seriously disrupting the climate. That is all there is to it. There is no plausible scientific theory that can rebut that.
Plenty of interesting things to argue and debate about how, and how fast, to get ourselves weaned way down on fossil fuel. Thoughtful and informed people can disagree about these questions.
But if you are trying to suggest that those who accept and those who deny ACC are equivalent and both wrong and that there is something reasonable and in between? Um, no.
I have to hand it to you - you disguise an extremist position in an aura of feigned moderation. The same slippery stuff peddled by the tobacco industry for years after it was settled that smoking causes cancer, lung, and heart disease.

[lestersails]

On a related topic - I am firmly opposed to developed nations giving money to poorer nations affected by ACC. Giving them money because their reefs are dying. They are right that our gross overuse of fossil fuels has harmed their countries in a significant way. That said, just throwing money at them distracts from the critical priorities of converting from fossil fuels to other energy sources. If a dollar is available to put toward this issue, it should go directly to activities that replace fossil fuels with green(er) energy.

[LakeSuperior]

Originally Posted by lestersails

It needs to be said again: The scientific debate about ACC is settled. Human-generated greenhouse gasses are raising global temperatures, acidifying the oceans, and seriously disrupting the climate. That is all there is to it. There is no plausible scientific theory that can rebut that.

After 1000's of CF posts where you and several others firmly state your position over and over like you have a direct line to fact, it's nice to have some fresh voices. These voices certainly will not put a chip in the rock you and your ilk stand on but at least we won't have to hear the same refrain every time anything remotely related to climate is mentioned.

And OBTW, I can easily find a 1000 reputable scientists that privately don't have your level of conviction. In fact, there are new observations that seem to be pointing in a different direction.

[RaymondR]

A big part of the problem in Australia is that the proponents of CC/AGW keep presenting reasons for doubting that any warming is taking place.

Again and again claims of "unprecedented" heat, fires, floods and other weather related events are found to be untrue by reference to the extensive records contained in public records. An extreme example is "record" temperatures and in one instance it was found to be from a weather station which had only been in existence for about eighteen months.

In addition the propensity of the met bureau to "hemogenizing" (falsifying the temperature records by reducing them to produce "record" modern temperatures) has been carried out three times so far and is resulting in increasing disbelief in the CC/AGW trope.

The next big hit will be the failure of the electrical power distribution system within the next couple of years. The authorities have managed to prevent extensive failures of the system using various ploys however they are fairly rapidly running out of them and price rises are starting to bite forcing the government to subsidize the less well off and put price caps on coal and gas. However it wont be long before the populace realizes that the problem is not any lack of fuels but government policies which restrict it's discouragement of exploitation of the extensive local resources.

Another problem for the CC/AGW propagandists is the failure of nature to cooperate with their predictions of "THE END IS NIGH" floods, fires, tempests and tipping points. Predicted extensive droughts, wherein the water storage dams would all dry up, have not taken place and this year extensive rainfall and flooding have occurred. The fires of a few years ago have not continued to occur and the "unprecedented" nature of some of them in rain forest areas have been found to be untrue by research of the historical records. The claims of the increasing prevalence of tempests have also been discounted and so many "tipping points" have gone by without the world emulating Venus that new are being entirely ignored, even by the media.

As to the scientists, they are on the same road to irrelevance by way of their jumping onto the bandwagon behavior. The covid thing has been very helpful in this as more instances of unnecessary suppression of civil rights by government on the advice of so called experts have come to light.

I suspect that the next to feel the wrath of a vengeful public will be activist judges, we had one delay a major hydrocarbon development a hundred miles or so out to sea a few days ago because someone who lives on an island claimed it would offend their superstitious beliefs. Not wise when energy prices are rapidly rising because of artificial restrictions on supply because of "climate change".

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by LakeSuperior

After 1000's of CF posts where you and several others firmly state your position over and over like you have a direct line to fact, it's nice to have some fresh voices. These voices certainly will not put a chip in the rock you and your ilk stand on but at least we won't have to hear the same refrain every time anything remotely related to climate is mentioned.

And OBTW, I can easily find a 1000 reputable scientists that privately don't have your level of conviction. In fact, there are new observations that seem to be pointing in a different direction.

Hey - thanks for the vocabulary lesson. "Fresh voices" is your new catch phrase for "climate change denier" and "alternative facts"? OK - "fresh voices" it is!
Hilarious that you think you have an inside angle on a 1,000 reputable scientists who "privately" deny ACC. Do they have a secret society, handshakes, and decoder rings? Another denialism trope - conspiracy theories.
Sorry - won't stop telling you the facts and truth over and over again no matter how many times you spout nonsense, lies, and propaganda.
And another thing I have said a few times and will keep saying - it doesn't matter how much you don't like hearing it. TBH, I don't like the harsh truth of ACC either. It sucks. I'd would MUCH rather just keep burning oil and gas. So we can agree that ACC sucks then?
I guess my problem is that I live in the real world of evidence, facts, and legitimate science. Where do you live?

[lestersails]

Originally Posted by RaymondR

A big part of the problem in Australia is that the proponents of CC/AGW keep presenting reasons for doubting that any warming is taking place.

Again and again claims of "unprecedented" heat, fires, floods and other weather related events are found to be untrue by reference to the extensive records contained in public records. An extreme example is "record" temperatures and in one instance it was found to be from a weather station which had only been in existence for about eighteen months.

In addition the propensity of the met bureau to "hemogenizing" (falsifying the temperature records by reducing them to produce "record" modern temperatures) has been carried out three times so far and is resulting in increasing disbelief in the CC/AGW trope.

The next big hit will be the failure of the electrical power distribution system within the next couple of years. The authorities have managed to prevent extensive failures of the system using various ploys however they are fairly rapidly running out of them and price rises are starting to bite forcing the government to subsidize the less well off and put price caps on coal and gas. However it wont be long before the populace realizes that the problem is not any lack of fuels but government policies which restrict it's discouragement of exploitation of the extensive local resources.

Another problem for the CC/AGW propagandists is the failure of nature to cooperate with their predictions of "THE END IS NIGH" floods, fires, tempests and tipping points. Predicted extensive droughts, wherein the water storage dams would all dry up, have not taken place and this year extensive rainfall and flooding have occurred. The fires of a few years ago have not continued to occur and the "unprecedented" nature of some of them in rain forest areas have been found to be untrue by research of the historical records. The claims of the increasing prevalence of tempests have also been discounted and so many "tipping points" have gone by without the world emulating Venus that new are being entirely ignored, even by the media.

As to the scientists, they are on the same road to irrelevance by way of their jumping onto the bandwagon behavior. The covid thing has been very helpful in this as more instances of unnecessary suppression of civil rights by government on the advice of so called experts have come to light.

I suspect that the next to feel the wrath of a vengeful public will be activist judges, we had one delay a major hydrocarbon development a hundred miles or so out to sea a few days ago because someone who lives on an island claimed it would offend their superstitious beliefs. Not wise when energy prices are rapidly rising because of artificial restrictions on supply because of "climate change".

Wow! Every denialism trope on display for all to see. This is professional stuff.

[Bowdrie]

Originally Posted by lestersails

The scientific debate about ACC is settled

Have you defaced any works of art, perhaps lain in a street to block vehicles, or glued yourself to some structure?
No? That's good, it shows that you have not yet been totally corrupted by that little Swedish girl.
Poor thing, probably doomed to a life of despair, anger, and delusion. Never knowing any inward peace.
But there are multitudes, nay millions, who have fallen victim to the disciples of the pagan earth goddess Gaia.
Bowing down, grimacing, promising to do whatever necessary to atone for tapping into her to extract the oil that she created.
Of course, disregarding the ugly skin diseases on her topography caused by the removal/displacement of 500,000 cubic yards of her skin to make ONE EV battery.
It doesn't take a wizard to see the hypocrisy of that religion.
Between 2010 and 2021 are, (not counting leap years,) 4,015 days.
In the US, the total number of estimated miles driven by EVs during that period of time is estimated to have saved 2.03 days' worth of gasoline use in motor vehicles.
That works out to ~.0005% of gasoline saved over 11 years by EVs.
I would say that the prognostications of the disciples of Gaia are premature.
And the grids will not even fully support the ones that are on the road now. It's of no matter if the entire state of Kansas was one gigantic solar/wind farm, (you can't get there from here, you gotta start from somewhere else).
Jeepers, I gotta be careful, lest Gaia strike me down, (or swallow me in one of the giant potholes that the govt. never seems to have enough money to fix).

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

Have you defaced any works of art, perhaps lain in a street to block vehicles, or glued yourself to some structure?
No? That's good, it shows that you have not yet been totally corrupted by that little Swedish girl.
Poor thing, probably doomed to a life of despair, anger, and delusion. Never knowing any inward peace.
But there are multitudes, nay millions, who have fallen victim to the disciples of the pagan earth goddess Gaia.
Bowing down, grimacing, promising to do whatever necessary to atone for tapping into her to extract the oil that she created.
Of course, disregarding the ugly skin diseases on her topography caused by the removal/displacement of 500,000 cubic yards of her skin to make ONE EV battery.
It doesn't take a wizard to see the hypocrisy of that religion.
Between 2010 and 2021 are, (not counting leap years,) 4,015 days.
In the US, the total number of estimated miles driven by EVs during that period of time is estimated to have saved 2.03 days' worth of gasoline use in motor vehicles.
That works out to ~.0005% of gasoline saved over 11 years by EVs.
I would say that the prognostications of the disciples of Gaia are premature.
And the grids will not even fully support the ones that are on the road now. It's of no matter if the entire state of Kansas was one gigantic solar/wind farm, (you can't get there from here, you gotta start from somewhere else).
Jeepers, I gotta be careful, lest Gaia strike me down, (or swallow me in one of the giant potholes that the govt. never seems to have enough money to fix).

What's an area of Porto got to do with anything..???

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Bowdrie

..., disregarding the ugly skin diseases on [Earth's] topography caused by the removal/displacement of 500,000 cubic yards of her skin to make ONE EV battery.

... bullsh!t.

the grids will not even fully support the [EVs] that are on the road now.

more bullsh!t.

[boatman61]

What sh¡t looks like..