Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-01-2017, 02:55   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Novato, California
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 288
Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Hello,

I'm planning on installing a Newport Dickinson diesel heater. I only have enough room to install a flue damper or a heat exchanger but not both unless I want a major redesign of the cabin.

I've googled for information and found one person who installed the heat exchanger with no flue damper but his write up sounded like he had no clue if that was the optimal decision other than it was working, hadn't burned down the boat, or asphyxiated anyone.

Anyone have any experience with this?

I have already sent an e-mail to Dickinson for support but being as jaded as I am and the heat exchanger costing 3 times as much as the damper I would appreciate some information from another knowledgeable person.

Not sure if this is the best group for this question. If I hear back from Dickinson I'll post their reply.

Thanks in advance.

Ken
__________________

kentobin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 04:38   #2
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bumping around the Caribbean
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,617
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentobin View Post
Hello,

I'm planning on installing a Newport Dickinson diesel heater. I only have enough room to install a flue damper or a heat exchanger but not both unless I want a major redesign of the cabin.

I've googled for information and found one person who installed the heat exchanger with no flue damper but his write up sounded like he had no clue if that was the optimal decision other than it was working, hadn't burned down the boat, or asphyxiated anyone.

Anyone have any experience with this?

I have already sent an e-mail to Dickinson for support but being as jaded as I am and the heat exchanger costing 3 times as much as the damper I would appreciate some information from another knowledgeable person.

Not sure if this is the best group for this question. If I hear back from Dickinson I'll post their reply.

Thanks in advance.

Ken
The installation manual says that a barometric damper must be installed. When a manufacturer of a fuel burning device that is going inside my boat uses the word must, I would follow their instructions. In addition, the manual makes it sound like the damper is integral to the proper operation of the heater.

How are you planning on installing a heat exchanger? It's not part of the stove or an accessory that Dickinson sells.
__________________

Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 09:05   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UPSTATE NY
Boat: Cape Dory 27D
Posts: 87
Images: 2
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

You must install a barometric damper for proper burning. The heat exchanger is optional. You can improvise a heat exchanger of sorts by coiling 1/2 inch soft copper tubing around the outside of the exhaust stack ahead of the damper. If the coil is level with or below your hot water tank convection will circulate the water. If over the level of the hot water tank you will have to add a circulation pump. Either way you will have to also add a tempering valve to the output of the tank or risk scalding and if you run the heater for a period of time without using hot water you will be generating steam so you must have an adequate pressure relief valve. Seems way too much trouble for the advantage of using some of the exhaust heat to heat water. Bottom line, install the barometric damper, forget the heat exchanger.
MCOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 09:40   #4
Registered User
 
Panope's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Washington State
Boat: Colvin, Saugeen Witch (Aluminum), 34'
Posts: 1,740
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

I have been using a Dickenson Newport for many years without a barametric damper. No problems.

My installation manual states that the damper is required ONLY when the flue is longer than 6 feet.

My flue is 5 feet.

Steve
__________________
Panope's Modification/Refit: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...un-101572.html Videos of Anchors Setting: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums...ng-155412.html
Panope is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 10:12   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: UPSTATE NY
Boat: Cape Dory 27D
Posts: 87
Images: 2
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

As in all the technical matters, follow the manufacturers installation directions. If your circumstances indicate a barometric damper is required, install one. The damper allows for a constant vacumn in the combustion chamber which provides optimum burn. The longer the stack, the more important the damper is. You may need/require the damper as dictated by the manufacturer and the particulars of your installation for optimum performance but you do not need a heat exchanger.
MCOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 15:06   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Novato, California
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 288
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suijin View Post
The installation manual says that a barometric damper must be installed. When a manufacturer of a fuel burning device that is going inside my boat uses the word must, I would follow their instructions. In addition, the manual makes it sound like the damper is integral to the proper operation of the heater.

How are you planning on installing a heat exchanger? It's not part of the stove or an accessory that Dickinson sells.
Actually the manual states and I quote (all capitalization is there's):
"A Barometric Damper is a MUST FOR BEST COMBUSTION.
The barometric damper should be installed in oil and solid fuel heaters and stoves."

Which does not mean it must be installed. I have to admit I wasn't sure of the exact wording until you brought it up.

Also a quick google search on the internet will bring up this page:
https://www.google.com/search?q=dick...hrome&ie=UTF-8

with a number of links to a Dickinson diesel heater heat exchanger.

So far I have received an e-mail from Dickinson asking for more information and have responded with pictures and rough dimensions.

I'll post whatever information they eventually send me but as it's Friday 2pm pst and I just sent them the information. Next week maybe the earliest I hear back from them.

Thanks to those who have commented already.
kentobin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 17:37   #7
Registered User
 
pcmm's Avatar

Join Date: May 2014
Location: Whitby, Canada
Boat: Morgan Out Island 41
Posts: 1,174
Images: 2
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Not sure why you can't have both the heat exchanger and the damper?? the heat exchanger goes INSIDE the stove. The damper is attached to the flue. If you look on pape 10 if the install manual it says the damper "should" be installed, not "must" we had a dickinson heater onboard for 5 years livingaboard (used every day during the winter) and didn't have any need for the damper. It didn't have any adverse affect on the operation.
pcmm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 20:54   #8
Registered User
 
Wood's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Portsmouth, NH
Boat: Bayliner, 4588, 45'
Posts: 151
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

If you're not burning PNG you need the damper per manufacturer
Wood is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 23:13   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Novato, California
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 288
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Reply from Michelle Parry of Dickinson Marine-
included pictures are of the same boat I have with a heater installation similar to what I am considering. pictures found on web. Time to do some more measuring and rethink the installation options.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi Ken,

So with installing the heater at the height of the bench and having the bend at the top like the pic, you would have approx.. the min height of the chimney. In my opinion I would not use the Heatex heat exchanger having the min length of chimney. This will create a weak draft. Adding the heat exchanger to a 4ft chimney will steal the draft from an already weak draft which is asking for trouble. If you can extend the chimney outside with say another 2ft for a total of 6ft of chimney, then the heat exchanger could be an option.

The whole key to running this heater and achieving a clean burn is to balance the fuel to air. The air is created with how the chimney is configured and the fuel is from the oil metering valve. With a weak draft you will find you can only burn on lower setting and you would be more acceptable to backdraft. A strong upward draft in your chimney allows you to burn on the higher settings as well as fight the wind trying to come down your chimney.

Let me know if you have anymore questions of if I need to clarify anything.

Have a good weekend!


Kind Regards,

Michelle Parry
Dickinson Marine
Dickinson Manufacturing
101-17728 66th Ave
Surrey, BC V3S7X1 Canada
Tel: 604-574-8641
Fax: 604-574-8659
Dickinson Marine // Quality Marine Products Since 1932 | Dickinson Marine
Welcome to SigMarine.com - Marine Heaters & Stoves
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bulkhead with Heater.jpg
Views:	241
Size:	88.9 KB
ID:	139904   Click image for larger version

Name:	Heater Flue Cap on Deck.jpg
Views:	356
Size:	57.1 KB
ID:	139905  

kentobin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-01-2017, 23:45   #10
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Victoria BC
Boat: 1980 Hunter 36
Posts: 990
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Damper. You can make your own sized to fit heat exchanger later.
__________________
S/V Gudgeon
www.gudgeonblog.ca
alctel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2017, 11:18   #11
Registered User
 
seasick's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Bend, OR
Boat: Brewer designed Pacific 43 in fiberglass. Center cockpit set up for long-distance single handing.
Posts: 472
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Making any recommendation to you would be irresponsible lest you wake up dead from carbon monoxide poisoning some day.

I personally have run several Dickenson diesel heaters and ranges with the heat exchanger and without the dampener for many years with no ill effects. My pipe runs all exceeded six feet.
seasick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2017, 11:33   #12
Registered User
 
Suijin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bumping around the Caribbean
Boat: Valiant 40
Posts: 4,617
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Quote:
Originally Posted by kentobin View Post
Actually the manual states and I quote (all capitalization is there's):
"A Barometric Damper is a MUST FOR BEST COMBUSTION.
The barometric damper should be installed in oil and solid fuel heaters and stoves."

Which does not mean it must be installed. I have to admit I wasn't sure of the exact wording until you brought it up.
I guess your manual is different than the one online:

2. Important Notes

A barometric damper must be installed to help regulate the draft. A barometric gives you more control in the “fuel to air” mixture needed for correct operation. The valve controls the fuel whereas the fan increases the air and the barometric decreases the air (See Pg. 9).


I don't see the word best in there. I see must.

Anyway, you're misinterpreting "best" in your version. Inclusion of the word does not mean it's optional. The consequences of "not best" combustion are numerous and you don't want to go there.
Suijin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2017, 13:37   #13
Moderator
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 16,161
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Quote:
Anyway, you're misinterpreting "best" in your version. Inclusion of the word does not mean it's optional. The consequences of "not best" combustion are numerous and you don't want to go there.
Since the combustion chamber is not open to the interior of the boat, and is vented through the stack to outside the boat, what calamitous consequences are you worried about?

Jim
__________________
Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II back in Port Cygnet doin' the isolation tango.
Jim Cate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2017, 14:00   #14
Registered User
 
buzzstar's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ashore in So Calif.
Boat: No more boat (my medical, not the boat's)
Posts: 1,451
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

Sounds like a replay of a recent propane discussion, including the possibility of death, albeit from carbon monoxide not fire, and numerous comments by those who have had no problems by ignoring safe practices. Of course, those who have had problems themselves are rarely around to say much.
__________________
"Old California"
buzzstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-01-2017, 14:31   #15
cruiser
 
ur2slo's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Here, not there.
Boat: Kettenburg K40
Posts: 189
Re: Diesel Heater: Flue Damper or Heat Exchanger

If it's any help, all the fuel stoves up this way that work the best have the barometric dampener installed.

And I personally have been in the boat, (not mine) when the flame went out,......

and when it relit, self combusted, WHOOOM the floor boards lifted! Instant explosive decompression of the bilge! Jeez, we laughed on getting by that one with scorched souls only.

So even all the do hickeys you can use made by man to make them work, you still need common sense to stay alive and warm.

But they are the "BEST" in my opinion for heat.
__________________

ur2slo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel, heat exchanger

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Barometric Damper on Newport Diesel Heater cburger Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 21-01-2020 16:12
Terminology help: Damper plate, clutch disc, pressure plate, drive damper pbmaise Engines and Propulsion Systems 21 21-08-2016 08:52
[SOLD] Dickinson 3" X 22" heater flue pipe w/Barometric austinrick Classifieds Archive 0 03-02-2014 14:40
Which Heat Conductive Material to Boost My Exhaust Heat Exchanger? Exhaust Shanaly Plumbing Systems and Fixtures 4 05-07-2013 03:58
2GM20F Water Heater / Heat Exchanger cfoxcvg Engines and Propulsion Systems 2 26-02-2010 08:05

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 17:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.