Who is in Charge if Legally Boarded?

[barnakiel]

I believe the skipper of the boarded vessel is in charge at all times, unless removed by force from his control (chained, killed, etc.).

Should the skipper not be able to manage the vessel, the first mate takes over.

The boarding party leader is NEVER in command. If they do take over the command, they effectively take over the vessel and this is piracy, even if labelled otherwise by some govt agency.

This much said it is 100% OK to be boarded in territorial waters. Happens to nearly anyone in any part of the world now and then.

Cheers,
b.

[tomrealest]

WARNING
THIS IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL OF THE UNITED STATES
YOU HAVE NO AUTHORITY TO BOARD THIS VESSEL WITHOUT PROBABLE CAUSE
IF YOU INSIST ON DOING SO THE MASTER OR OWNER RESERVES THE RIGHT TO ENTER A LEGAL COMPLAINT IN A FEDERAL COURT WHERE YOU WILL BE REQUIRED TO APPEAR AND SHOW CAUSE FOR YOUR ACTIONS.
Have a nice day.[/QUOTE]



well, I have to ask, if the vessel is a U.S. Documented vessell, are you saying or State or local Police can not allowed to board Your vessel without "probable cause". That's news to me (I assume You are right) but I can see where that would provoke some young cops or older"hot heads"

Clarification or thoughts?

[Rockyscience]

Have been boarded in Belize and Guatemala, the Master is always in charge.
Always call the Captain of the port and never let them take your Passports to sign you in. Guatemala was a good one, The Belize "Gunboat" was not.
USCG is always great.

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And women (blondes in particular) want equality? Why would they want such a downgrade?

Jim

Ooooooo! Good job you're not sailing an Ice boat James, otherwise I would hail you to say you're on Thin Ice matey.

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

And women (blondes in particular) want equality? Why would they want such a downgrade?

Jim

Not me, Blonde is a super power....

[rwidman]

Only a fool tries to tell the authorities what they may or may not do.

[Sailorbob8599]

I'm truly surprised by some of the responses here from 'experienced' sailors. Some, sound more like comments expected from teen-age louts who try out-besting a uniformed authority.

TEKNISHN posted a good response (#12) in which he recognised the value and service these people do for us every hour of every day. I'm in his corner, treat 'em with due respect because they deserve it.

I'm Canadian, I believe in having these people to defend our borders, as well as keeping us safe while doing so . . . on both sides of the line.
Yes, they might sound "authoritative" but so will any officer be it USCG, CCG, local Police or other powers of authority.

If as I believe, many of you have worn a uniform in the service of your country, you should know this is the way it is. They're doing a job and you should appreciate it. Show them respect and they will usually respect you, providing you're not being a 'smart-ass' yet, even then, some of them will still show respect but don't bank on it. . Better you think how you might feel on the worst day of your life when they show up in a howling gale to rescue your sorry butt from imminent disaster and imminent DBD.

Whether in our own coastal waters, or foreign; as a last thought, remember who carries a gun and will use it if necessary. Only YOU will be the decider of how that situation pans out.

In response to the OP question, I would say the skipper of the vessel will always be in charge unless, or until relieved of that responsibility by the OIC of the boarding party. This would indicate the situation has changed from 'questionable' to 'very serious' in which case, I believe said skipper would by now, probably be wearing 'cuffs and a court of law will be the decider of the outcome.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by rwidman

Only a fool tries to tell the authorities what they may or may not do.

Ya might be forgetting ya so called "War of Independence"...

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599

........

In response to the OP question, I would say the skipper of the vessel will always be in charge unless, or until relieved of that responsibility by the OIC of the boarding party. This would indicate the situation has changed from 'questionable' to 'very serious' in which case, I believe said skipper would by now, probably be wearing 'cuffs and a court of law will be the decider of the outcome.

Thanks for this view point and while I agree, I keep reading of boardings where the crew are kept on deck or otherwise not allowed the freedom to move about the vessel. I'm sure the boarding party have their reasons but it does appear to fly in the face that they technically "invited" to be on board and the skipper is restrained from effectively being the skipper.

I also note the general appreciation of the USCG and the job they do.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Teknishn

Just read this and passed it on in a e-mail to a former colleague of mine that retired from the USCG. So my response here is specific to the US. (I have experiences in other parts of the world....just assume you have no rights other than what the boarding person in charge is offering). My colleague's reply was that the Captain or Skipper of the boat remains in command of the vessel while being boarded by the USCG and for the duration of the USCG inspection or until USCG finds reasonable cause to take command of said vessel (drugs, drinking and driving, illegal weapons, weapons with no permit, as examples). He also reminded me that all vessels in US waters can be boarded for search, inspection, and/or seizure at anytime and a vessel's owner or captain may refuse....but the vessel will be boarded anyway..especially if the owner/captain refuses.

Have owned 5 boat's and have been boarded 3 times over probably a 10-15 year period. (Note: All of my boat's have had that USCG inspection sticker in the window.)

One time I was out testing and troubleshooting a 318 engine in my old N.J. Eastern Sea Skiff. Must've been just above freezing that day. Tied the wheel over so the boat would drive in circles so I can assess the engine. Finished what I needed to do and started to head back to the private dock where I kept the boat. USCG intercepted me and asked me what I was doing. Told them I was testing out my engine. "Good Luck Sir" was the reply and they head off.

Turned the boat around and chased after them honking the horn. Now, These men and women are out there everyday...rain, snow, heat waves and freezing temps doing law enforcement and looking out for us. So I was thinking I could make their day a bit better/different/unusual. They slow down as I come alongside and ask "You guys want some Chili Dogs? Rafted up on a cold January day and ate pretty good. These guys and gals are doing a job...a very important one....Be nice and thank them for their efforts.

(Disclaimer: I'm retired USN. We old U.S. Navy Squids always derided the USCG as not being true "Blue Water" sailors. Was a SAR swimmer for a few years back-in-the-day....And then I learned and understood what the USCG actually does. Total RESPECT to the USCG for what they do. Coastal SAR is much more difficult than out in the blue.)

Next time they want to board you, welcome them onboard, offer them a Coke, Sprite, Water, a snack....whatever. You're out on the water having a good day, they're doing a job....make their day better. They're out there to keep us safe.

Thanks for taking this to your former colleague and posting his response.

As thanks for the rest of your considered response

[Sailorbob8599]

Originally Posted by Wotname

Thanks for this view point and while I agree, I keep reading of boardings where the crew are kept on deck or otherwise not allowed the freedom to move about the vessel. I'm sure the boarding party have their reasons but it does appear to fly in the face that they technically "invited" to be on board and the skipper is restrained from effectively being the skipper.

I also note the general appreciation of the USCG and the job they do.

Crew are kept on deck because part of the inspection includes searching for contraband: eg DRUGS, illegal merchandise or WEAPONS etc. . . . the CG don't want to risk interference in their job from any crew member. Also, they'll explain it's for the safety of both parties because, 'mistakes' can happen.

Really, this is no different to police coming into your land based home on a search warrant.

As for being "invited" aboard, remember when they came alongside they asked "Do you have any objections to us coming aboard"? (or words to that effect). The question was posed only as in a manner of showing respect. They intend to board your boat regardless and, there's not much you can do there and then, other than register your displeasure &/or objection to the OIC.

AFTER the intrusion, you can take whatever LEGAL ACTION you wish, but only AFTER the CG have done their duty.

For your own safety, and that of all others aboard, do not try to prevent them from carrying out their work (duty) because should you be so foolish, THAT is the moment you will learn who is really in charge of the situation and . . . it won't be YOU!

[YPSILANTI]

I live in Africa. Here, the guy with the biggest firearm is in charge, commonly referred to as "Sir." Unfortunately not always an official.

[darylat8750]

Many years ago a "Sheriffs marine patrol" ordered me to "stop". I was on a decked sailing canoe in gusty 10-20 kt. winds with an inexperienced (as in first ever sail) crew. I told them I couldn't stop but could sail on a mostly steady course beam reach. They came up on the lee side and one of them grabbed my boom. I told him to let go. He said I had to follow instructions. I said let go NOW or you will sink me. The other LEO told him to let go and with some vigorous bailing we got things under control. Among other things we had that discussion about who is in command. My neighbor / attorney and several of my friends that were sheriff's deputies agreed that in Wisconsin the captain/owner is in command unless he is "detained" or arrested. This discussion around a couple of beers and no judges or actual case law was made. It was also a long time ago. Only a few other contacts with LEOs or CG and all have been safe and polite.

[Johnno]

It's interesting that the original thread came from 'Wotname' based in Australia and no Australians have responded. Thanks to our USA compatriots for advice on USCG activity. Here in Australia we have Border Force, (incorporating Customs), Royal Australian Air Force (maritime patrol over flights), Federal Police, State Police, Fisheries Protection & Marine Parks Authority and the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, all hell bent on stopping private craft and asking questions. I've encountered them all from time to time and have found them to be mostly professional although the fisheries mob can be a bit over the top. In Australian waters yachties are normally overflown by Border Force who call on VHF 16 and are courteous but seem to overfly you every day or two, makes you wonder if they don't share data!

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Johnno

It's interesting that the original thread came from 'Wotname' based in Australia and no Australians have responded. Thanks to our USA compatriots for advice on USCG activity. Here in Australia we have Border Force, (incorporating Customs), Royal Australian Air Force (maritime patrol over flights), Federal Police, State Police, Fisheries Protection & Marine Parks Authority and the Great Barrier Reef Marine Park Authority, all hell bent on stopping private craft and asking questions. I've encountered them all from time to time and have found them to be mostly professional although the fisheries mob can be a bit over the top. In Australian waters yachties are normally overflown by Border Force who call on VHF 16 and are courteous but seem to overfly you every day or two, makes you wonder if they don't share data!

On my passage through the Torres Strait and till 1 day out off Darwin I was overflown every day.. after they had my details on the first overfly they'd just hail me everyday by name to see if all was well.. roughly the same time every day so figure its a regular patrol off their waters.