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psneeld · 10-01-2014, 03:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkiprJohn

A big "Yes" to this post. Only the folks who issue the licenses can answer specific questions. However, 4 hours in a 24 hour calendar day counts for a day in the requirements. If you set sail at 2000 and arrive at 0400 you've sailed 2 days.

Did I get that right PS?

even I would have to call...but in my experience... just one day...whichever day you pick it doesn't matter.

to me here's the deal...

they know that the average person is gonna fudge like crazy...the airlines for many years automatically reduced your flight time when applying for a job....

so it's the amount, when you log it, where you log it and on what you log it that they sit back and see if it's realistic.

anyone saying they are getting a couple hundred days a year up north on a 25 footer, all offshore time and they are not part of a charter boat operation...well the USCG just might raise the BS flag. But Change the location, size of boat and you are a mate on a T-boat signed off by a reputable captain and your time claim would go unchallenged, no sweat.

one thing abut the USCG...never lie to them...they really don't take kindly to it and have a long memory if you try and go back and get something a few years later....sure sea time is like IRS deductions...they will possible negotiate...but the deal is you submit it and are either approved or disapproved usually. I have only heard of a few instances where they will call and discuss (or send a letter usually)...most of the time your entire package is returned with the reason it was disqualified. If disqualified for sea time...good luck. Again I have never run across someone who was disqualled for "overstating" sea time so I don't know what the outcomes might be...most people narrow down their time to believable...maybe though fancy spreading it out or whatever...but it does usually seem to get them through.

twistedtree · 10-01-2014, 04:19

I just reported mine as it was with the required supporting documentation. It went right through.

captain58sailin · 10-01-2014, 04:19

My apologies, I did not intend to publish misinformation, I was going by what was the requirements in 1980, when I got my first ticket. I have only recorded 12 hour day since working commercially due to the length of watches, never had my sea time challenged, and the requirements for upgrades in licenses is different from the initial issue. I try to make sure what I put out here is accurate, sometimes I slip up. I call it "Old Timers" disease. I can remember 20 years ago like it was yesterday, and couldn't tell you what I had for breakfast. By all means go to the source and eliminate the guess work.

psneeld · 10-01-2014, 04:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by captain58sailin

My apologies, I did not intend to publish misinformation, I was going by what was the requirements in 1980, when I got my first ticket. I have only recorded 12 hour day since working commercially due to the length of watches, never had my sea time challenged, and the requirements for upgrades in licenses is different from the initial issue. I try to make sure what I put out here is accurate, sometimes I slip up. I call it "Old Timers" disease. I can remember 20 years ago like it was yesterday, and couldn't tell you what I had for breakfast. By all means go to the source and eliminate the guess work.

I know you were helping and hope I didn't infer anything but that....

When it comes to licensing...going straight to the customer service desk (now that they have it and works so well) saves a lot of anguish over conflicting info from the internet between guys on their 8th renewal and the guys still in the initial process.

The schools say things they shouldn't and there's always someone unknowingly just passing along misunderstandings.

I remember my first submission was rejected because the USCG wanted a a sea service verification letter on original letterhead from my last USCG command. They would not accept a "memo" from the Commandant's headquarter's staff where I was assigned because it's not truly a "command" but a "support division"....go figure.

Once straightened out...my time not only breezed through...when I applied to teach licensing...the owner of the school was amazed I was approved to teach courses where I didn't even hold the rating yet like Master 100 Ton, assistance towing.....

....that's why I always say to people...go straight to the horse's mouth, get their name and send your package in...if there's ever a question you can refer to that conversation rather than a printout from this forum....

captain58sailin · 10-01-2014, 05:00

Too true, you are absolutely correct, get the info. first hand. I hate to put out misinformation, I don't want people thinking I am a blow hard, even if I am. I am currently working on my 9th and last , and things have changed a lot over the years. I expect the only teaching I'll do is at the coffee table in the cafe, telling the young ones "Ah you guys don't know what going to sea is anymore!" Back in the day when ships were wood and the men were iron.

**hpeer** · 01-02-2014, 15:40

I've a bit of a pickle.

I've got lots of time on a small boat in high school. I spent all summer working on the water as a clammer. Dad was a clammer, he had a small boat I used. He had his own dock. Dad is looooong dead. No one else around, I'm talking late /60's. You wouldn't even recognize the area anymore its changed so much.

Then I had a long period where I was messing about in small boats; canoes, kayaks, etc. off and on. But nothing registered.

8 years ago I took up sailing. I've got good sea time: two circumnavigations of Newfoundland and 8,000 miles, mostly single handed. But that only gets me 236 days of "documented" time.

I haven't a clue of how to "document" the early years.

What I keep hearing, from some pretty credible resources including instructors, is that "if it floats, it counts." Canoes, kayaks, tubing, sail boards. Surely they have similar issues.

Any thoughts?

BandB · 01-02-2014, 15:56

As to the hours for a day.

The allowance of four hours as a day only applies to boats under 100 GT. It is made recognizing these aren't boats with regular watch and work schedules and that you're likely very involved throughout.

The other exception to eight hours is that on a boat where six hour shifts are worked as the standard schedule and as normal for that boat then two six hour shifts may count as 1 1/2 days. So six on, six off, six on, six off can be 1 1/2 days. Note this does not mean 12 hours worked is a day and a half. The exception is very specific.

The more complex question is what counts as time and what counts as underway. Dock time while no trip is planned doesn't count. However, anchoring and work at dock while part of being underway, part of the voyage do count in determining the day.

Also, note that time less than the minimum, such as less than four hours on the small yacht, doesn't give you partial time, it gives you nothing. There is no such thing as 3 hours for 3/4 day or even six hours on a larger boat as 3/4 day. You either get a day in or don't.

BandB · 01-02-2014, 16:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

I've a bit of a pickle.

I've got lots of time on a small boat in high school. I spent all summer working on the water as a clammer. Dad was a clammer, he had a small boat I used. He had his own dock. Dad is looooong dead. No one else around, I'm talking late /60's. You wouldn't even recognize the area anymore its changed so much.

Then I had a long period where I was messing about in small boats; canoes, kayaks, etc. off and on. But nothing registered.

8 years ago I took up sailing. I've got good sea time: two circumnavigations of Newfoundland and 8,000 miles, mostly single handed. But that only gets me 236 days of "documented" time.

I haven't a clue of how to "document" the early years.

What I keep hearing, from some pretty credible resources including instructors, is that "if it floats, it counts." Canoes, kayaks, tubing, sail boards. Surely they have similar issues.

Any thoughts?

As to the time on your father's boat, since he is now deceased, I would recommend the following. If you could prove his ownership of the boats, then you might ask for an exception due to his death. But you'd need to prove as if you had owned the boat. If he wasn't the owner, then you'd need the owner to sign.

Messing about gets into a complex situation. Were they underway for at least four hours during that day? Then who owned the boat you're referencing and will they submit the documentation?

On the single handed circumnavigation, your statement would suffice if you could prove ownership, otherwise the captain or owner's.

You have some complex questions that could and should be submitted for an official answer.

But honestly I wouldn't worry too much about the early time as it will do you minimum good in pursuit of licenses. Yes, you might get your 6 pac if you have enough recent experience too but as to moving on you'll need more. For instance, my wife and I are both licensed and we had years on our own 25-30 foot boats. But all that gave us was Inland and 25 ton although more gave us 50 ton. We're having to gather more time on larger boats we own now to get to something more meaningful. Now for us, we're not planning on using our licenses professionally or anything so not really important. But we still have considerable hours to add to get to 100 ton near coastal which is where the real benefit of a license would come into play if we were needing it professionally.

Were 90 of your sailing hours in the last three years? Actually even the last three years today doesn't get you there. It must be the last three years at the time you submit your application.

outrigger · 01-02-2014, 16:35

I work offshore 200 ton license. I work 12 hrs on 12 off. USCG recognizes 8 hr days. With working 12 I get credit for 1.5 days. Have for the last 5 years and just sent in for my renewal.

BandB · 01-02-2014, 16:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by outrigger

I work offshore 200 ton license. I work 12 hrs on 12 off. USCG recognizes 8 hr days. With working 12 I get credit for 1.5 days. Have for the last 5 years and just sent in for my renewal.

I'm sure they accept yours as a fixed shift on a commercial vessel. The rules are intentionally not hard and fast so they can look at each situation. Yours is far different than someone who just happens to be on a yacht for 12 hours and that's why they make the distinction.

outrigger · 01-02-2014, 16:56

true. my 6pack was all my boats. mostly a 23 ft seacraft.
If i remember right my first turn in was 724 days.

**hpeer** · 01-02-2014, 16:59

I'm well over 90 in the past three years. Probably more like 150.

BandB · 01-02-2014, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by hpeer

I'm well over 90 in the past three years. Probably more like 150.

What is your intended use for your license? I ask as we did like many and just bypassed a six pack and went on for a Masters License.

Corrected mistype